Transaxle, Hub woodruff key wear: Transmission 5091: 1976 C-120

[lynnmor 7,354]

I have a machine shop and could repair the parts, but there is no way I would waste my time unless there would be no parts available.  A proper repair with good used parts will last almost forever if the setscrews are kept tight. I would not want parts weakened by extra keyways or welding.  Splitting the trans, cleaning inside, then replacing seals and the bad axle is worthwhile.

[1976 C-120 10]

Okay gentlemen, I finally received almost all my seals, so I have begun the process of dropping the transmission out. I have run into one problem and that is the high low shift stick. How do I detach it so I can get the transmission out? I haven't popped the finally bolts yet, because I just can't see it fitting through that tiny spot with such a sharp bend in the stick. I see the tiny pin that goes through it, but wanted assurance that I need to punch that pin out to disconnect it. Also, Is there a seal for the high low where it goes into the transmission. The manual doesn't show a seal, but it doesn't make since that they wouldn't have one. Yes, I know I am being overly cautious, but parts on this are harder to find then with my JD, so I would rather ask first.

[pfrederi 17,884]

Use a roll pin punch drive out the pin no seal involved. 

[ebinmaine 68,387]

22 minutes ago, 1976 C-120 said:

parts on this are harder to find 

Just to give you a little reassurance... Once you've got a set of names, parts for most any Wheelhorse are nearly all VERY EASY to find.

 

There's a great list of vendors here on Redsquare.

In that is A-Z. A fantastic source for most things you'd think are hard to find.

Many of us keep our own little stores of extras.

Also, the fleabay has a wondrous assortment of things you need.

If you can't find something - ask in a thread.

I've done it many times.

Other folks have things saved in lists and are very willing to share their knowledge and experience.

 

 

[1976 C-120 10]

33 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Use a roll pin punch drive out the pin no seal involved. 

Haha! I have to laugh at myself. I keep thinking I am going to find some ghost around every turn. I keep forgetting that this is 1976 engineering. What you see is what you have. Thanks.

[pfrederi 17,884]

Make yourself some alignment pins makes removal and  re installation a lot easier.  3/8" NC Bolt cut off head taper it a bit and make a slot for a screw driver.

[1976 C-120 10]

So it is out! But, It seems I broke the dipstick nipple (3-61) while dropping it. I'm not sure how, as I fished that out first, but at some point it broke. I have enough threading left to remove it from the transmission, but was wondering if anyone had a part number for it.  

[1976 C-120 10]

On 3/17/2019 at 4:20 PM, pfrederi said:

Make yourself some alignment pins makes removal and  re installation a lot easier.  3/8" NC Bolt cut off head taper it a bit and make a slot for a screw driver. 

 

 I wasn't sure where the pins would be used when you first sent this. After taking it out, I now understand and agree completely.

[1976 C-120 10]

18 minutes ago, 1976 C-120 said:

So it is out! But, It seems I broke the dipstick nipple (3-61) while dropping it. I'm not sure how, as I fished that out first, but at some point it broke. I have enough threading left to remove it from the transmission, but was wondering if anyone had a part number for it.   

 

Just FYI, I have A to Z and Wheel Horse parts and more working on it. A to Z gave me part number 102703, but that is the tall one, not the short one. Has anyone cut the tall one to fit like the short one?

[1976 C-120 10]

After over a week of searching, I have yet to find a part number for the short style dipstick nipple. If anyone has seen or knows anything on the topic, please help. I am going to be up a creek without that part. 

 

[ebinmaine 68,387]

How is the piece inserted/held into the transmission?

Any pics or measurements of the total length/diameter?

 

I've not tried to remove one.

 

It might be something you could make?

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,096]

The 102703 may be the short tube that uses a 101847 dipstick. (1977 C-120 8-Speed)

 

The 106448 tube uses 106447 dipstick (1990 312-8)

https://www.partstree.com/parts/toro/parts/106448/

 

Any numbers on your dipstick?

I know one of the above is short and the other long. Just don't know which is which but the illustration of the 106448 looks long to me.

That would make the 102703 a short one.

 

Garry

[ebinmaine 68,387]

4 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

The 102703 may be the short tube that uses a 101847 dipstick. (1977 C-120 8-Speed)

 

The 106448 tube uses 106447 dipstick (1990 312-8)

https://www.partstree.com/parts/toro/parts/106448/

 

Any numbers on your dipstick?

I know one of the above is short and the other long. Just don't know which is which but the illustration of the 106448 looks long to me.

That would make the 102703 a short one.

 

Garry

Well done Garry!

 

Judging by the pics above he needs the short one.

Part number shows NA.

Any possibility of getting specs on it?

 

[pfrederi 17,884]

8 hours ago, 1976 C-120 said:

After over a week of searching, I have yet to find a part number for the short style dipstick nipple. If anyone has seen or knows anything on the topic, please help. I am going to be up a creek without that part. 

 

 

You are not up the creek.  Dip sticks only appeared on late trannys.  On the left side of the transmission near the rear bottom the is a plug sticking out at an angle.  That was the level plug used before dipsticks.  Yours may have a 1" pipe nipple and plug not just a plug. If it has the extension nipple just fill the tranny until oil runs out.  No nipple get a 1" one and cap and fill till it runs out.  Level is not that super critical.

[1976 C-120 10]

Appreciate the help guys. I am working on manufacturing one. I'll hopefully have some photos in a couple days. I'm making it the way wheel horse should have made it with metal, not plastic. The only flipping plastic piece, except the light cover, on the whole gosh darn tractor. Haha. It kills me. 

[1976 C-120 10]

Here is a taste for now. 

[1976 C-120 10]

Anyone have a recommendation for what additive/cleaner I could use to flush the transmission? Would like to give it a cleaning before changing the seals.

[ebinmaine 68,387]

Just now, 1976 C-120 said:

Anyone have a recommendation for what additive/cleaner I could use to flush the transmission? Would like to give it a cleaning before changing the seals.

Here's what I've learned to do and I think it works quite well.

 

did the front end of the tractor off the ground as far as you can safely do so. The reason is because there's a hump in the case in the inside of the transmission and you need to get the fluid over that hump and out the drain hole.

Lower the tractor and put the drain plug back in and fill the transmission with about two quarts of diesel fuel.

Driving around in each gear for a couple minutes each.

This way you make sure every gear gets moved around in the fluid.

 

Drain.

Repeat whole procedure.

 

Proceed to installation of new parts.

 

[1976 C-120 10]

So obviously requires the transmission on the tractor. As it is currently off and apart, does anyone have any suggestions for when the transmission is off? Or has anyone tried the diesel fuel solution? I think I read the diesel process in another post on here.

[meadowfield 2,595]

late to the party, but it's not that hard to cut a new slot if you have access to a lathe.

 

The rear tranny on Bendy had a wallowed out keyway

 

 

 

I just clamped it in the lathe and cut a fresh slot along the hole length.

 

 

 

 

 

A longer key spread the load and meant I didn't need to replace the hub

 

 

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 68,387]

5 hours ago, 1976 C-120 said:

So obviously requires the transmission on the tractor. As it is currently off and apart, does anyone have any suggestions for when the transmission is off? Or has anyone tried the diesel fuel solution? I think I read the diesel process in another post on here.

Lots of others have done the same thing.

I learned it from this site.

If your transmission is still assembled but not drivable you can (and I have) used the diesel flush method.

Something needs to be keeping the fluid in it though. If you have already taken the old seals out you can use tape around the axle or whatever.

 

Procedure would be to drain as above.

Fill with diesel.

Then you could lift one end or rock the transmission (carefully) by hand.

 

You'll still get quite a bit of the mess out but driving it gets between all the gears much better.

 

[1976 C-120 10]

Well, in case anyone was interested in how this project has turned out, it had to get put on hold. My John Deere's transmission, Tuff Torq K55H, decided to spill oil all over the floor of my barn. So I have spent the last 3 weeks rebuilding/waiting on parts for that. I can finally say, after 3 weeks of waiting, it is done. I conducted my first open heart surgery on a transmission, removing both pump and motor from the hydro, and I'm confident enough to call it a success. I have finally turned my attention back to the Horse. 3/4 of it got its second coat of paint yesterday. Now I'm just waiting for some warm weather and a day off from work to get the rest of the paint on. Then it will go to my friend's farm where he has a mill for grinding out the new woodruff key slot. Sorry, I've been too busy for photos, but once all the paint is on, and it looks sexy, I will post a few.   

 

More to come.

 

Here are some pictures of the Deere simply because we are men and we like picture books.

[1976 C-120 10]

Was wondering what folks would recommend I refill my transmission with. Manual says SAE 140 GL - 5, but I can't find a true 140 GL-5. I am sure there is a post in the archives on this that someone could direct me to.

 

Anyways, I have been looking at :

1.) Mobil SHC 634 ISO 460, which is a SAE 140 synthetic. Problem is it is a AGMA standard 7, which I read shouldn't be used in automotive differential applications that require GL - 5. Obviously this isn't a diff, but I'm not sure how that translates.

 

2.) Super Lube Synthetic Gear Oil ISO 680 or 460. The 680 has a AGMA of 8 and the 460 AGMA of 7, but both are rated SAE 140 (apparently???).

 

3.) Royal Purple 85w-140 synthetic. Says its GL-4 / GL-5 compatible. (I have no idea how it can be GL-4 and GL-5 since it is a difference in chemical make-up)

 

4.) Sta-Lube 85W-140 non-synthetic GL-5.

[1976 C-120 10]

Just for an update, I completed the transmission. I had a friend who has a mill, cut a new key hole in the transaxle. I bought a new hub for about $94. I had to tap bigger holes in the new hub since the old lug bolts were too big. I replaced all the seals and boot. I tapped two set screw holes in each hub for some added strength. I painted it, remounted it, and then flushed it with diesel as some of you had recommended. I will post some photos soon. Now I have been looking for some gear oil to fill it with and off I'll go.

[pfrederi 17,884]

I will get a lot of flack about this, but for a Wheel horse 8 speed it doesn't make a lot of difference what you use (assuming it isn't in commercial service)  WH changed manual tranny oil recommendations over the years.  MY L107 has run 40w motor oil for 52 years and runs winter and summer.  Most of my others are running 90w or 85-140...what ever was on sale.  If it gives you a warm fuzzy and you don't care about money I am sure Synthetics are excellent choices.

 

Biggest thing keep the water out  and they will run for years what ever you use.