Transaxle, Hub woodruff key wear: Transmission 5091: 1976 C-120

[1976 C-120 10]

I am starting a new thread because I can't find much information on a 1976 C-120 (61-12K802) with a 5091 Transmission.

 

The Problem:

  - A "never serviced" (except oil changes) Transmission after 40+ years of hard labor.

 

History: I inherited the tractor from my grandmother after my grandfather passed away. I had a 400+ foot driveway and my grandmother was gracious enough to gift me the wheel horse to plow it. The tractor had spent almost its entire life plow and mowing a commercial property on Niagara Falls Blvd in Buffalo, NY. When I got it, it hadn't run in 5+ years because it had all kinds of issues, including 4 on the floor, and I don't mean in the good way. Well I got the Kohler to chug and the wheels to turn, but when they turned they would leak transmission oil. As my dad says, Well if it ain't broke..... so I kept filling it with oil and put that job away for another day; it still plowed after all. Well, one new house with a barn later, its finally another day and time to provide some TLC to the seals on the transmission. It is a task I have been afraid to start for fear of what I might find.

 

Enter the problem:

The left hub and axle are worn pretty good. It is a result of the woodruff key rocking back and forth in its housing and slowly wearing away metal. On the hub image below, that is not a camera distortion, the whole side of the hub where the key fits is worn off so that it is angled as opposed to 90 degrees.This issue was probably discovered by someone years ago since the screw set to lock the hub on is an after market screw and doesn't match the OEM on the right side. My question becomes, what can I do? Replacing the axle and the hub is an expensive undertaking, even if I can find the parts. I have also never opened a transmission before, so I am not confident in my ability to successfully get it back together. I have only replaced pump shafts and seals, simple tasks. 

 

My last question is, before I start digging and cutting, how hard is it to get seal SKF 11050, 6105, and 7410 out and replaced? They seem to really be packed in there.

 

 

[1976 C-120 10]

Here is the right side, which is in pretty good condition.

[pfrederi 17,879]

You are probably gong to have to replace the axle and hub.  Check with AtoZ tractors in our vendors section for good used ones.  Splitting the transmission is not that big a deal and there are several videos instructional  threads available here.  (You could repair th axle but it would require welding which I gather you are not prepared to do.

 

 

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/144-transmissions/

 

Welcome to red square

Edited March 12, 2019 by pfrederi

[ebinmaine 68,356]

Like Paul says above. You do need to replace the axle and hub.

Don't be scared of ripping into that transmission.

They are surprisingly simple to take apart and put back together with basic hand tools.

 

If you have a friend that works at a machine shop those pieces could be easily repaired.  Unless you know someone in that industry, you can buy replacement parts for less money than having a machine shop repair them for you.

 

You have a great machine there with great potential. Take the time to repair it right and it will service you very well for many years to come.

 

 

[jebbear 377]

Totally agree with everyone above, short of having access to a machine shop, the axle(s) and hub(s) are going to need replaced. As mentioned above, I would probably start with the good folks at A-Z Tractors in search of good used ones. As far as the transmission, don't be afraid of it. Never myself having opened one up before, I just recently completed a complete rebuild of mine and is really not that difficult. You can still get almost every bearing and seal through places like Motion Industries and are really not very expensive. @stevasaurus is our transmission guru and he helped me out a lot with mine. Good luck on your project, and as Eric said above, definitely a great machine worth saving.

[classiccat 548]

 

I'm smack dab in the middle of rebuilding my 5091 (link).  

 

wheelhorsepartsandmore will have everything you need as far as seals and gaskets go (we're kit #5).

[stevasaurus 22,866]

Welcome to Red Square. 

Here is the link with videos of the transmission that is like yours.  Differential is 10 pinion, you have an 8 pinion.  Check it out.

 

The set screws that you should use for the hubs are cupped at the end of the thread...because of the round axle.  Take plenty of pictures...they will help you and they will help us if you do run into something.  Plus, we love pictures.  Here is the link to the traans manual...you want section V. 

 

 

[ztnoo 2,298]

I'm certainly very inexperienced with opening a tranny up, but I'm sure with the expertise available here, they can get you through any potential problem areas or quirks.

If you are going to open it up, might as well have a good look at everything internally while you are at it..........bearing, seals. whatever.

If there's any question whatsoever about anything, replace it.

That way it will likely be good for at least another 40 years of use or so......

Good luck!

 

[1976 C-120 10]

Thanks for the advice! I was amazed to see how many people responded, and how quickly.

 

I have some decent welding skills at my disposal, although they are far from an expert. My original thought was to weld the woodruff key in place and then grind/file off any extra until I have it nice and round with a snug fit. This of course only postpones the inevitable and will make changing a seal next time, impossible. The hub was more of a concern since weld and grinding are impossible with the tools I have.

 

I have found part: Toro 105763-03, which appears to be my replacement hub, but they don't have specs, so I'm not fully sure. If someone can weigh in that would be great.

I still can't find a new axle? The manuals don't seem to give a comparable part number and they don't tell me the length of each axle. I think I would have to call A-Z to match.

 

stevasaurus, I already watched your movies 2 times or so and about 3 others on You Tube as I debated my next move. It is very informative, I wish someone walked through bolt removal and such to remove the transmission. I'm a planner, very particular, so I like to know every bolt I'm removing. If anyone has photos or videos of actually dropping the transmission out, I would greatly appreciate them. 

 

I am leaning towards doing the rebuild as I really want to clean up and repaint the whole transmission. She could be beautiful again, just like when she was young. If I do this I will try and take photos/videos of every bolt as I go along, maybe it will help another rookie later on.

 

[roadapples 6,983]

@Ed Kennell show him how to fix those axles. I did one and consider it a permanent fix.

I also took a hub to the local machine shop and he cut a new keyway at 90°  and drilled and tapped a hole for set screw for $20.

[Ed Kennell 38,665]

As Jay said, If you can weld, the axle can be repaired.     I made a dummy brass woodruf key and welded the slot around it, then ground and filed the axle to spec using the hub as a guage.

 

Picture are here, but I couldn't find them.

 

[JoeM 7,874]

55 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

As Jay said, If you can weld, the axle can be repaired.     I made a dummy brass woodruf key and welded the slot around it, then ground and filed the axle to spec using the hub as a guage.

 

Picture are here, but I couldn't find them.

 

here ya go Ed

[ebinmaine 68,356]

2 hours ago, 1976 C-120 said:

call A-Z to match

You give Lincoln a ring.

He'll fix ya right up.

 

If you have access to the welding, fix the axle and replace the hub.

 

 

@roadapples that's a phenomenal low price to broach a keyway.

 

I was quoted $100 here in Maine.

 

 

[1976 C-120 10]

3 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

As Jay said, If you can weld, the axle can be repaired.     I made a dummy brass woodruf key and welded the slot around it, then ground and filed the axle to spec using the hub as a guage.

 

Picture are here, but I couldn't find them.

 

What did you use to cut out the key slot? Anything special or specific? Also, the brass didn't melt away on you? I ask because it turned out fantastic.

Edited March 13, 2019 by 1976 C-120

[Ed Kennell 38,665]

17 minutes ago, 1976 C-120 said:

What did you use to cut out the key slot? Anything special or specific? Also, the brass didn't melt away on you? I ask because it turned out fantastic.

I did not cut out the key slot. The brass key kept the weld from getting in the existing  damaged slot as I welded up the missing areas.

  No, the brass will not melt.    

I used a 4.5" angle grinder to grind the axle close, then filed using hi-spot bluing to final fit the axle to a hub.

 

[ebinmaine 68,356]

5 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

then filed using hi-spot bluing to final fit the axle to a hub

I'm kinda gathering what you mean. How's that done?

 

[953 nut 55,776]

I would encourage you to open up your transmission too. The leaking axle seal is probably caused by a bad axle bearing and a replacement seal alone would fail in short order. As you have already discovered, we are here to help you save your horse!

[Ed Kennell 38,665]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I'm kinda gathering what you mean. How's that done?

 

Same principle as used to hand work a engine head till it is flat.   There the guage is a flat piece of glass.      With a round shaft,  the hub bore becomes the guage.

In both cases you coat the surface of the head or axle with hi-spot bluing or black magic marker,  then rub it with the guage showing the high areas where material must be removed.

By carefully  filing only the high spots, the hub can slowly be worked on to the axle with a good sliding fit.

This process is similar to the "art" of hand scraping  fine machine ways and bearing surfaces.

http://www.circuitousroot.com/artifice/machine-shop/surface-finishing/hand-scraping/index.html

[ebinmaine 68,356]

@Ed KennellKennell

Wicked cool. Thanks for that.

Looks like something we will be able to try as we increase our skill and Tool Arsenal.

 

[stevasaurus 22,866]

That's why I gave you the link to the manual.  It tells you how to separate the trans from the horse.  I did not get videos of that process, because I always just seem to get the transmission that is already separated. 

[edgro 677]

I repaired an axle by welding carefully and slowly, as to not get it too hot. The keyway can be ground out with a Dremel tool with a cutting or grinding wheel

[1976 C-120 10]

I didn't get an answer on this, anyone know if this is the same part? I have found part: Toro 105763-03, which appears to be my replacement hub, but they don't have specs, so I'm not fully sure. If someone can weigh in that would be great.

[ebinmaine 68,356]

17 minutes ago, 1976 C-120 said:

I didn't get an answer on this, anyone know if this is the same part? I have found part: Toro 105763-03, which appears to be my replacement hub, but they don't have specs, so I'm not fully sure. If someone can weigh in that would be great.

Somebody else may be able to tell you if that's the correct number but a 76 c120 should have a 5 bolt 1 and 1/8 hole size hub.

 

There are likely multiple part numbers that will fit your application which will change based on simple things like color.

 

Are you hunting for a New hub?

A good used one will give you another 40 years of service if installed correctly, for about one-third the price.

[pfrederi 17,879]

105763-03 is the correct hub and cost over $100 new.  Like EB said above any used 1-1/8" 5 hole hub will fit and will be a lot cheaper.

Edited March 13, 2019 by pfrederi

[ebinmaine 68,356]

You could also do like Mr. Apples suggested a few posts back and have a machinist Broach a New Groove if you have decent price and availability in your area like he does