Battery drained on 414-8

[snowhound 105]

I have a 414-8 that I picked up about 5 months ago that had to be started by jumping the solenoid.  It sat without a battery until about 2 weeks ago when I installed a push button to start it.  I ran a wire to the push button from the positive battery post and a second wire with a fuse from the solenoid to the push button switch to by pass the safety switches at starting.  I left all wires intact for starting at the ignition switch and removed the wire from the solenoid and just let hang.  The tractor started fine and the seat and PTO safety switches worked but the voltage meter isn't working, I don't know if it worked before or not but I am getting 13.4 volts at the battery.  Today the battery only has 4.36 volts could I have caused the battery to drain? 

I installed the push button because my 417 went down and I needed something quickly to plow with once the 417 is repaired I plan to go back and fix the bad safety switch and remove the push button.

 

Snowhound

[pfrederi 17,885]

Doesn't sound like your rewire was the issue.  But since it didn't work right before it may have always had a short... Pull the - battery cable when you are done working her.

[snowhound 105]

Thanks for the reply I didn't think I caused it but electrical isn't my strong point.  I did pull the negative cable and put the charger on.  I'll bring a multi tester with me next time I go to work on it and see if I can find the circuit that's drawing. 

[lynnmor 7,354]

Pull a battery cable and fully charge the battery.  Now put a small bulb between the loose cable and the battery post.  If the bulb lights there is a load that you need to find.

[snowhound 105]

Thanks, I'll try that.

 

[953 nut 55,815]

Has the battery been load tested?  Corrosion can become a high resistance short to ground, clean everything.

[snowhound 105]

Battery hasn't been load tested but connections have been cleaned and tighten.

[lynnmor 7,354]

45 minutes ago, snowhound said:

Battery hasn't been load tested but connections have been cleaned and tighten.

How did the light bulb test work out?

[snowhound 105]

Sorry I haven't had time to try it.  I don't have a garage at my house but have property that I rent in an other town that is about 20 mins away that has a garage and that's where the 414 is.  Between the weather and trying to remodel our bathroom I haven't had the time to get there but have plans on going there tomorrow. I'll let you know what happens

[snowhound 105]

Took the battery off the charger and tested by connecting a small bulb between the positive battery terminal and the ground cable the bulb didn't light.  I recorded the voltage of the battery and have left the negative cable disconnected and will check the voltage again in a week or so to find out if the battery is bad.  Thanks again for all the replies 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,096]

First connect the test bulb to the two battery posts to make sure it works.

With one battery cable connected to the battery and the other one disconnected you need to put the test bulb between the disconnected cable and the battery post for that cable. Any current flow or drain will make the bulb glow.

It does not matter which cable is off. 

 

Garry

[bc.gold 3,403]

On 2/28/2019 at 3:51 PM, snowhound said:

Sorry I haven't had time to try it.  I don't have a garage at my house but have property that I rent in an other town that is about 20 mins away that has a garage and that's where the 414 is.  Between the weather and trying to remodel our bathroom I haven't had the time to get there but have plans on going there tomorrow. I'll let you know what happens

You can shade over the battery terminal and lightly drag the cable end over if you see a very small spark you have a load. A faulty regulator diode would be my first bet.

 

The draw on the battery would be in the millamp range not enough to light of a filament type bulb, try an led.

Edited March 3, 2019 by bcgold

[953 nut 55,815]

8 hours ago, bcgold said:

A faulty regulator diode would be my first bet.

       If the key is off there is no connection between the battery and regulator/rectifier.

[snowhound 105]

I'll get a LED bulb to try.  Is there a way to test the regulator diode?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,096]

The 1986 and 1987 model 414-8 use a 3 amp charging system that has a diode on the engine side of the connector where the stator wires plug into the tractor harness. That diode can be checked.

The 1988 and 1989 414-8 use a 15 amp charging system with a 3-wire regulator. No diodes here that can be checked.

 

As mentioned the charge wire is not connected to the battery with the key off on these models.

 

Garry

[bc.gold 3,403]

5 hours ago, 953 nut said:

       If the key is off there is no connection between the battery and regulator/rectifier.

Permanent magnet alternator, I  would need to see the wiring schematic as the charging circuit could be independent of other circuits.

[snowhound 105]

I was there today so I checked the voltage of the battery it was 12.8 two days ago and 12.71 today and the negative cable was disconnected.  I used the tractor and checked the voltage with it running just before I put it away, it was 15.3 isn't that a little high?

Battery voltage after I turned it off was 13.08 I've disconnect the negative cable.

[pfrederi 17,885]

5.3 is a little high but not too bad.  The 13.08 is the result of a "surface Charge" from being chargeds up.  manuals tell you to turn the lights on for a minute to get rid of it and see what your true voltage is.

[squonk 41,345]

Get a 12 volt test light from a parts store and connect it like Gary said. It is actually a 9 volt bulb in the tester. It will glow with a milliamp draw. You don't need an LED. 

[bc.gold 3,403]

1 hour ago, squonk said:

Get a 12 volt test light from a parts store and connect it like Gary said. It is actually a 9 volt bulb in the tester. It will glow with a milliamp draw. You don't need an LED. 

 

Nothing goes to waste, I save the indicator lights from electric ranges to be used as test lights, these are neon and they can handle plenty of voltage. My father had one that he used to test for spark from the magneto leading to the plug.

 

R,I,P. dad.

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by bcgold

[bc.gold 3,403]

10 hours ago, snowhound said:

I'll get a LED bulb to try.  Is there a way to test the regulator diode?

 

The diodes are probably encapsulated in epoxy, a leaker will draw a small amount to current from the battery as the machine is back in the barn resting.

 

The guy in this YT obviously choose and easy one for this demonstration.

 

 

[953 nut 55,815]

7 hours ago, bcgold said:

Permanent magnet alternator, I  would need to see the wiring schematic as the charging circuit could be independent of other circuits.

Here you go, just follow the orange wire from the key switch to the rectifier/regulator. There is nothing else in the path and with the key off there is NO connection from the battery to the RR.

[bc.gold 3,403]

7 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Here you go, just follow the orange wire from the key switch to the rectifier/regulator. There is nothing else in the path and with the key off there is NO connection from the battery to the RR.

 

Got it, thanks.

 

Tested the spades on one of my ignition switched your right 953 in the off position there is no continuity between the spades.

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by bcgold

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,096]

15 hours ago, snowhound said:

I was there today so I checked the voltage of the battery it was 12.8 two days ago and 12.71 today and the negative cable was disconnected.  I used the tractor and checked the voltage with it running just before I put it away, it was 15.3 isn't that a little high?

Battery voltage after I turned it off was 13.08 I've disconnect the negative cable.

If you have a 1986 or 1987 model this sounds normal if the battery is in good condition and fully charged which I believe you just charged. The voltage will likely settle down after a few starter motor uses to lower the battery voltage.

That is because there is no voltage regulator used with the 3 amp charging system.

 

Garry