Working backwards...

[cazngz 19]

  As some of you may know, I acquired a W/H Electro 12 a week or so ago.  It's had questionable maintenence so instead dealing with the hydro leak which I know it has somewhere, I decided instead to grease the machine ( I hope there is only 5 fittings cause that's all I found, didn't see any for the front axle pivot point  soo.. don't know what's up with that )  I also changed the oil, looked at the plug which was burning a lot better than I would have thought, and took the plate off the top ( 4 screws ) just to look around in there.  BTW, can someone tell me what that thin 2 inch slot is for on the plate I took off since nothing is protruding thru it ?  Tommorow or Tuesday I'll drain the hydro oil out, change the hydro filter, refill with Dexron and try to start and run it to see exactly where the leak is. Then the fun will begin.  Maybe I should have tackled the leak first by putting in some oil but this all got done in an hour or so.  And at the end of the day I like to see I accomplished something.  

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,101]

Front axle pivot should have a 1/4"-28 45 degree part #1481 grease fitting below the pin. They often get sheared off.

 

Garry

[cazngz 19]

7 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Front axle pivot should have a 1/4"-28 45 degree part #1481 grease fitting below the pin. They often get sheared off.

 

Garry

 

 

      Well that would explain it, I felt around that area but didn't feel anything. Gotta get me one of those tractor lifts to hoist the front end to look around.  Hope its accessable to get out with a drill and an EZ out. Is it sheared from the front ( looking at the tractor ) or the rear. My eyes don't focus like they used to.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,101]

It is threaded strait up from the bottom. It will already have a hole in it so the appropriate sized EZ out should remove it with little effort. Not likely it is tight because the hex is likely gone also.

 

Garry

[cazngz 19]

10 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

It is threaded strait up from the bottom. It will already have a hole in it so the appropriate sized EZ out should remove it with little effort. Not likely it is tight because the hex is likely gone also.

 

Garry

 

 

     Good to know..   thanks

[Sarge 3,463]

Some of the farm stores carry a multi-headed grease tool for installing and removing zerks - one of the tips on it is for removing broken ones. Try to hunt around and find the older US made tool  - the import ones tend to break off too easily.

 

Sarge

[pfrederi 17,886]

The slot is so you can see the whitish pointer indicator showing the position of the motion control.  There is supposed to be a decal on the plate the show how far you have moved the motion control...Sort of worthless.

 

 

[cazngz 19]

10 hours ago, pfrederi said:

The slot is so you can see the whitish pointer indicator showing the position of the motion control.  There is supposed to be a decal on the plate the show how far you have moved the motion control...Sort of worthless.

 

 

 

 

   So I take it that slot is supposed to be on top of the plate ?   If so, mine isn't.   Does the indicator on the left side from 1 to 6 ( up and down arrows )  have anything to do with the white indicator  ?  If not, what is it , mine doesn't have one.  Instead, someone fashioned a manual choke where that is.. the choke knob is about where the 4 would be.. and the decal is gone.  

[pfrederi 17,886]

The white 1-6 is for the hydraulic lift  the circled finger is what shows through the slot in the cover

 

 

[cazngz 19]

9 hours ago, pfrederi said:

The white 1-6 is for the hydraulic lift  the circled finger is what shows through the slot in the cover

 

 

 

   OK, so the white pointer remains below the slot.  The 1 to 6 indicator would be for the hydraulic lift which apparently someone removed a long time ago. I see a cylinder on the left side below the 1 to 6 indicator. Would that be the cylinder for the hydraulic lift  ?  Would that operate the lift for the mower deck or a p[ow ?

 

[pfrederi 17,886]

Yes it raises the deck.  You may be missing the control valve.  If the unit was operated with out the hydro lift hooked up they should have taken the implement relief valve out of the pump and moved the charge pump relief valve, if they didn't and operated it (or tried to) it could have damaged the pump.)

 

 

[cazngz 19]

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Yes it raises the deck.  You may be missing the control valve.  If the unit was operated with out the hydro lift hooked up they should have taken the implement relief valve out of the pump and moved the charge pump relief valve, if they didn't and operated it (or tried to) it could have damaged the pump.)

 

 

 

   As I said when I first got this I knew it had been hacked.. yep, it's missing the hoses and the control valve.  I have to believe it was removed many years ago, at least 15 that I know of..  How many hours the tractor has been operated this way I don't know, only that it was run w/out what I see on the photo.  It may have been run several hours or several hundred hours.  Well, I have a new filter for the hydro and a fuel filter that I'll probabl;y put on today...   I would be surprised, no make that astounded if they did what you suggest. I have no knowledge of the pump/relief valve and if they moved it.  Where would they have moved the relief valve to  ??  At least I have an idea what it orginally looked like and that's a big help..

   Out to the garage and change the fuel filter and maybe start it.  That will at least be a victory of sorts. I obviously won't try to engage the hydro since no fluid shows on the stick at present.  This is kind of going the way I expected it to but I have to deal with what I have.. or in this case what I don't have..

 

 

[pfrederi 17,886]

That it was operated for a while and that they went to the trouble to remove and plug the hose ports on the pump I would assume the implement relief valve was removed.  You cannot see from the outside.   It would be under the plug circled.

 

 

 

[cazngz 19]

5 hours ago, pfrederi said:

That it was operated for a while and that they went to the trouble to remove and plug the hose ports on the pump I would assume the implement relief valve was removed.  You cannot see from the outside.   It would be under the plug circled.

 

 

 

 

   I would have never guessed that was it's location, just looked like another bolt to me..  So can this relief valve be removed simply by taking out that bolt and it can be pulled out ?  that's it ?  No disassembly required ?  Just replace the bolt ?  I'm flying blind here so please excuse what might sound like a dumb question. And, before I go loosening the wrong bolt to drain the hydro, is it on the side an inch or so from the bottom on the left side ?  The one I'm looking at looks like the end of a socket wrench would fit in to turn it.  But it seems that wouldn't drain it completely so I may and probably are, incorrect.  Rear ends on some cars used to have that as well...  God only knows why.  BTW, ran a new gas line since the original ( or make that someone replaced it so that the gas line goes over the middle of the battery, just didn't look right so I replaced it and got it out of the way of the battery , put new gas in, charged the battery and tried to start it. It gave 3 turns ( not ever enough to get the gas to the carb )  and the battery died. Checked and confirmed the battery was at 24 % power.  I had it on a charger for at least 8 hours so it looks like I can add a battery to the mix...  It was time to call it quits for the day anyway,..  Dexron should be in by tomorrow at Wally world ( 2 gallons )  sooo....     thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

   

[pfrederi 17,886]

If it is still in there there will be a spring and a cone valve.  Spring you can grab the cone i use a magnet.  Drain plug is on the bottom of the transaxle just to the left of the front part of the hitch.  it uses a 1/4" Allen wrench and may be packed with dirt.

 

You should download the manual for your hydro so you do not fly blind

 

 

 

[cazngz 19]

10 hours ago, pfrederi said:

If it is still in there there will be a spring and a cone valve.  Spring you can grab the cone i use a magnet.  Drain plug is on the bottom of the transaxle just to the left of the front part of the hitch.  it uses a 1/4" Allen wrench and may be packed with dirt.

 

You should download the manual for your hydro so you do not fly blind

 

 

 

 

 

      Thnks for the link...    I have downloaded it.  As per your info I will be checking the relief valve on the off chance its still in there. 

[cazngz 19]

On 2/20/2019 at 10:07 AM, pfrederi said:

If it is still in there there will be a spring and a cone valve.  Spring you can grab the cone i use a magnet.  Drain plug is on the bottom of the transaxle just to the left of the front part of the hitch.  it uses a 1/4" Allen wrench and may be packed with dirt.

 

You should download the manual for your hydro so you do not fly blind

 

 

 

 

   Well, I removed the plug where the relief valve is. The spring was still in there although I didn't find any cone.  I used a magnet but the end was too big too insert.  I then used a piece of steel attached to the magnet to see if I could get it. Negative.  I may take the wheel off to get a better look and maybe see it with a flashlight.  Why they would have removed the cone but still put the spring back in would baffle me.  But I want to make sure it still isn't in there.  I put some trans oil in to find the leak and it only took a second or two to find it.  To the left of the valve that turns to engage the hydro or to push it there is a pipe type end cap sticking up in the air a bit with threads attached and screws into the case.  Obviously you need a pipe wrench to get it out.  I removed it and found it to have had a red tube type ( kind you squeeze from a tube ) gasket material that appears not even being close to sealing. I can either get a proper gasket thick enough to seal or maybe a bolt the same size again with a proper gasket.  Doesn't seem likely that pipe end would be stock ( I don't see a pipe end cap fitting in the manual )    If that pipe end cap can be removed or replaced with a gasket,  the leak fix would be almost too simple...    but a pipe end cap.. with threads and gasket schmutz  for a gasket ?  Thoughts  ?   On the plus side I started it today and ran it for a while, seems to be run decent enough.

   From your pics it appears to originally to have been a round plug with an inset for an allen wrench. Not sure of its purpose..

 

  

 

[Sarge 3,463]

Can you get a picture of this pipe?? On those valve cones - a common telescoping boron magnet will fit inside that bore to remove the cone. Those magnets are available at almost any parts store - the tool truck guys have some truly strong ones available as well - generally not too costly but very powerful. Try to avoid buying a really cheap Chinese or similar one - the hollow rod the magnetic tip is attached to can break off quite easily. Most of these boron type pickup tools are 1/4" in diameter, btw.

Sarge

[pfrederi 17,886]

There are a lot of plugs involved here lets be sure which one you are talking about?  If it is #3 it is a standard 1/2" pipe plug no gasket or O ring.  .  Never use RTV gasket maker in a hydro.  Little pieces can come off and cause major headaches when they get stuck in an acceleration valve port. 

 

I have a few cheap small magnets (probably made in China) that have always worked for me to pull the cone or ball valves. Been using them for years with no issues.

 

 

[cazngz 19]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

There are a lot of plugs involved here lets be sure which one you are talking about?  If it is #3 it is a standard 1/2" pipe plug no gasket or O ring.  .  Never use RTV gasket maker in a hydro.  Little pieces can come off and cause major headaches when they get stuck in an acceleration valve port. 

 

I have a few cheap small magnets (probably made in China) that have always worked for me to pull the cone or ball valves. Been using them for years with no issues.

 

 

 

    I was mistaken about the round Allen insert plug..  It's number 5, There is no spring inside. This is the one that has the pipe end cap with threads that leaks profusely when the hydro is engaged. Someone, at some time, apparently removed the bolt that should be there and put the pipe end in as a replacement.. The plug next to it, number 4, is a bolt, recessed for a spring that sits inside and a black O ring on the top of the bolt to seal it. The spring is in this one but not number 5. From your pic's from the outside, 4 and 5 seem to be identical.. but that's on the outside. What I still don't know is if the cone and spring are removed ( number 6 on your pic)  do I simply leave them out and replace the plug ?  I'm sure it has been this way for years although I don't how many hours it was run this way..  it seems to be fine so far the couple of minutes that it has been engaged..   this info obviously isn't in any reference materiel I've looked at so I'm relying on real world experience.  

[pfrederi 17,886]

#5 should look just like #2,4,6.  it is an SAE#5 ORB plug and requires an O-Ring Dash# 905 There is nothing under it.  #4 Is your charge pump relief it should have a spring and a cone valve.

 

Can you take a picture of the spring you removed from #2 next to a ruler. The springs for implement relief and charge relief are different . Curious as to what the PO did.  Also a picture of the "pipe end cap" you found in #5. 

 

If the #5 is not correct i can send you a correct one or it may just need the o ring..

[cazngz 19]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

#5 should look just like #2,4,6.  it is an SAE#5 ORB plug and requires an O-Ring Dash# 905 There is nothing under it.  #4 Is your charge pump relief it should have a spring and a cone valve.

 

Can you take a picture of the spring you removed from #2 next to a ruler. The springs for implement relief and charge relief are different . Curious as to what the PO did.  Also a picture of the "pipe end cap" you found in #5. 

 

If the #5 is not correct i can send you a correct one or it may just need the o ring..

 

   Glad to hear there isn't a spring under # 5.. I beiieve part of the problem with it pushing so much oil out is partly no gasket (  to speak of ) and perhaps partly because the pipe/end/cap seems to tighten up before its fully seated.  I don't think it's a thread issue. It's simply not the correct part.  I will try # 4 in it to see if it seats fully.  The spring under 4 is 1 5/16 inch.. I didn't remove the cone valve in # 4 ( didn't even know there was one in there )   I didn't yet measure the spring under # 6 but I'm sure it's considerably longer than # 4.  I believe it is # 6 that I removed the spring from and looking for the cone, not # 2..  I have the pics, I'm just not a whiz in figuring out how to post them no matter how simple it is.  If my grandkids only weren't 400 miles away I'm sure they would have ithem posted faster than I could figure out what they were doing..  I'd like to share what everything looks like.  It was always intented for pulling and pushing.  If everything is OK I'm fairly certain it will do most anything I ask of it.  Did I miss the answer to whether I just leave out the cone and spring in # 6 ?

[ztnoo 2,298]

See if this helps with posting photos:

 

[pfrederi 17,886]

Since you do not have the hydro lift the only thing in your pump will be the charge relief cone valve and spring under cap #4. (Nothing under #2) They are the bottom spring & cone in the picture.  The cap that should be in #5 is also shown. 

[cazngz 19]

4 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Since you do not have the hydro lift the only thing in your pump will be the charge relief cone valve and spring under cap #4. (Nothing under #2) They are the bottom spring & cone in the picture.  The cap that should be in #5 is also shown. 

 

 

   Ok...   first and most important to me is what, if anything, needs to be removed in regards to the implement relief valve that was mentioned earlier for safe operation to the hydro, keeping in mind there is a longer spring and probably cone as well in #  6 ?   No use to remove anything if it's ok where they are.  Replacing the bolt for # 5 with the proper one is obviously not a big deal.