d180 wont move

[daveoman1966 3,762]

8 hours ago, hucksterfool said:

No I don’t have that brake. Mine is on floor with engage and disengage. I do have tow valve and it is closed.  Tractor was working fine and started acting up. I assume the fluid fill is the one in rear diff

Can you further define "started acting up".   Did it SUDDENLY stop working right or, did it work fine for the 1st 15 - 20 minutes, then begin to 'act up'...as in gradual loss of power and little motion?  Your D is 45+ years old....things wear out.  If your is essentially worn out, you can rebuild it and that's not such a tough job...just takes a while to get it right.  Keep in mind that, if you buy a replacement pump, it too....is 45 years old and likely to have issues.  Better that you rebuild yours, IMHO. I have refurbished dozens of these and can provide lots of pics to help you out.   

Edited January 27, 2019 by daveoman1966

[hucksterfool 5]

I agree it’s old lol. It was a sudden stop. Not a slow failure 

[hucksterfool 5]

Do you know where I can get a rebuild kit?

[daveoman1966 3,762]

A sudden failure indicate something broke but there are so many parts that its is anyones guess what went wrong....we are trying though.

 

If you know how to work a wrench...you can rebuild the hyd pump and hyd motor.  It is NOT difficult to do...just time consuming to get it right.  There is a manual on RS to download with instructions to take you thru it, and I can offer some help too...

I  don't know of any rebuild kits available.  I have some used spare parts...

 

ANOTHER THOUGHT....  any one of several gears MAY have failed inside the transmission.  Of course, you'd need to do a lot of tear-dwon to make that determination.   Again, if there are broken gear parts, I can help with those too....or others can as well.   

 

I know someone else asked, but are you ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that a SHEARED KEY inside either of the rear axle hubs is NOT the problem.  TRY THIS to be CERTAIN:  With engine running, and both wheels on the ground.... eyeball the end of the AXLE inside the HUB...one side, then the other.  The axle SHOULD NOT spin in the hub.      

[pfrederi 17,885]

6 hours ago, daveoman1966 said:

A sudden failure indicate something broke but there are so many parts that its is anyones guess what went wrong....we are trying though.

 

If you know how to work a wrench...you can rebuild the hyd pump and hyd motor.  It is NOT difficult to do...just time consuming to get it right.  There is a manual on RS to download with instructions to take you thru it, and I can offer some help too...

I  don't know of any rebuild kits available.  I have some used spare parts...

 

ANOTHER THOUGHT....  any one of several gears MAY have failed inside the transmission.  Of course, you'd need to do a lot of tear-dwon to make that determination.   Again, if there are broken gear parts, I can help with those too....or others can as well.   

 

I know someone else asked, but are you ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that a SHEARED KEY inside either of the rear axle hubs is NOT the problem.  TRY THIS to be CERTAIN:  With engine running, and both wheels on the ground.... eyeball the end of the AXLE inside the HUB...one side, then the other.  The axle SHOULD NOT spin in the hub.      

 

 

Agree 100% with Daveoman.  Something broke.  The most breakable parts are springs.  I recall reading (I will have to do some research) that the spring in the hydromotor piston block and break.  (#72)  That would allow a big amount of fluid to bypass.  It would explain the lack of wheel movement and because so much fluid was going through a drop in system wide pressure impacting the lifts.  I can't explain why pressure drops when the engine speeds up...

 

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by pfrederi

[hucksterfool 5]

I plan on tearing it down this weekend. Thanks for the input. I’ll let you know what it looks like. 

 

Also so can I cap off or put in a bypass hose for the implements. I dont use them.  I just have a front loader that runs off it’s own pump. 

 

Less pressure lines to worry about going bad leaking etc. I just need forward and reverse. 

 

Thx

[pfrederi 17,885]

Yes you can plug the pump ports for the implement lifts.  You will have to remove the implement relief valve and move the charge pump relief from the left back to the righthand side.

[jnelkie 11]

I have a d160 that lost all hydro suddenly and I called LJ fluid (12696234150) and explained what happened and he told me exactly  what was wrong and he was right on. I put pictures up last fall and if you still have the motor off it should be easy to check. You split the motor and there was a broken clip and LJ had all the replacement parts. Good luck and I hope this info helps if thats what it was.

[hucksterfool 5]

Thanks. Funny I was reading your post as you were responding to mine. I am tearing apart this weekend. Post photos later. 

Also bought another pump as a backup

[hucksterfool 5]

Been tearing out the hydro pump to inspect. What a pain.  Question what are the big screwdriver screws on side of pump for?

There recessed in the pump. Pump is uncoupled from motor still have a few screws to go. Splines look fine. 

[pfrederi 17,885]

They are the covers for the forward and reverse check valves.  They can be a bear to get out.  I thought a drag link socket and hand impact driver would work ...but the drag link socket is a bit to big to fit in the recess.  Have used the biggest flat blade bit for the driver and it works but it chews up the slot.  Soak whack at it, soak whack at it, soak., whack at it til it or you give up.

 

  I am think of trying to grind down a drag link socket so it would fit in the recess if I have to do this again.

[Sarge 3,463]

I've had to grind down a drag link socket to fit those, there are 3 main sizes of them but I only had the largest two of the 3 sizes. Mid-sized one can be ground down to fit perfectly, but those covers screws are soft and easy to damage anyway. Wish I could find a hex female plug to fit those, but the plugs are custom-formed to fit the bores so nothing else off the shelf will fit it.

 

One thing to remember - clean that thing off as if you were going to prep it for final painting. There is no way to overclean the outside and prevent contamination of the internals - when it comes to hydraulic pumps and such you have to treat these parts as if it were surgery on a human, cleanliness is key. I also spend time cleaning the entire area around the motor/pump when removing them to keep debris from dropping inside causing damage - general dirt just seems to want to get inside these parts. Plan on a very clean, large work area with plenty of light, and an endless supply of rags and non-chlorinated brake cleaner. I keep a whole stack of simple animal feed pans to separate parts and clean them, laying things out on clean paper sheets with their order marked down to prevent mistakes. If you mess with the internal piston block - those pistons must be put back in their respective bores - do not mix them up and also pay attention to their overall length. Take your time and follow the book closely - every internal part in that Sundstrand is quite expensive and mistakes can be extremely costly.

 

Sarge 

[daveoman1966 3,762]

DITTO to all that SARGE wrote....Keep your work area CLEAN...Have a kerosene rinse can handy for flushing individual parts.  

About the two CHECK VALVES.  There is a way to check these, without removing the Slotted Plug.  On the front of the END CAP are two Socket Head Plugs... shown in this pic.  Remove that Hex Plug to see the BALL VALVE in the recess.  With a small flat screwdriver, CAREFULLY poke in there and see if the ball valve will move against the spring tension. ...see if it is stuck, or moves freely....if free, presume it to be ok.  Give the hole an air blast and move on to the other one.

           

[hucksterfool 5]

Thanks for this info. I am still perplexed why the thing has no forward or reverse. I am sure it will be apparent once I crack the pump open. 

 

Also so on another note. What is difference in c141 auto pump and the d18 auto pump?

 

does one more in opposite direction?  They physically look the same. I see a lot of these pumps readily available  vs the d18 

Edited February 5, 2019 by hucksterfool

[hucksterfool 5]

D18 pump

[hucksterfool 5]

C series auto pump 

[daveoman1966 3,762]

Just to avoid any confusion with the D series tractors... the HYDRO PUMP is attached to the Engine.  The HYDRO MOTOR is bolted to the left side of the transaxle.  There is a 4-line MANIFOLD between / connecting them using common fluid, giving rise to the term "Separated System".  The 'C' series (c-160, C-145, etc) have a Piston-to-Piston unit where the PUMP is bolted to the MOTOR. 

   When you open the PUMP, if you see scaring in the internal BRASS SURFACES, I can guarantee you that the HYDRO MOTOR will have similar damage, as the fluid circulates thru both sections. The internal components of the hydro MOTOR are very similar to those of the hydro PUMP.  I highly recommend that, if you are refurbishing the PUMP...do the same process to the MOTOR.  The MOTOR is much more accessible.  IMHO...refurbish BOTH sections.   

[hucksterfool 5]

Thanks. I found one really cheap was hoping internal parts could be salvaged for d series 

[daveoman1966 3,762]

Bear in mind that these pumps are ALL VERY OLD....  you can reasonably expect some wear with any of them.  NOTE.... be sure to mark the orientation of the PUMP to the END CAP...  it can be mounted 180 deg off...aka backwards.  Before you take it apart, use a scribe or file corresponding location marks.  This is also ture of the Hyd MOTOR when you get around to it.  

  

  

Edited February 5, 2019 by daveoman1966

[hucksterfool 5]

Understood.  I just wish they made a direct replacement compatible pump that would operate the same. 

[pfrederi 17,885]

I have not done the swap but it shouldn't be impossible.  The big thing is you will have to move the swash plate control to the other side of the pump.  The picture you posted of c141 pump is not it s a D pump.  Look at thls parts picture for a c141

 

I think you should have pilled the hydro motor first as it is easier to get to and I believe your issue i going to be the broken spring in the motor shown in this thread.

[pfrederi 17,885]

Look at your D pump.  As you face the pump body end (the rear of the unit) the motion control is on your right.  If you look at the piston to piston on a C series  the motion control is on the left.    Se picture.  C series is the complete unit on the right a D Pump is on the floor

 

 

 

[hucksterfool 5]

If that is the case then the supposed c pump I got has motion control on same side as d pump. 

?

maybe it is a d pump ?

[pfrederi 17,885]

I believe you are correct the tagged pump is a D series pump.  Now I agree with Daveoman about used pumps.  I have purchased several  pumps and motors...all came from "Good working tractors"  All of them had internal issues. Some were so bad i doubt they could move under their own power.

Edited February 5, 2019 by pfrederi

[hucksterfool 5]

Cool thanks. I got it it was listed as a c.  Sorry to bother you guys was just confused.