Used my 79366 snowthrower twice and it broke...need advice

[bizzo15 52]

So long story short I scored a two stage snowthrower for my 520xi in the off season and hooked it up to my tractor and finally got a chance to use it this past weekend after we got a storm that dumped about a foot of fresh now.  First time out everything was going good and the snowthrower was moving snow like a beast, I did notice though when I got to the berm at the end of the road the blower would shake and vibrate pretty good when going through it.  I thought it was just normal operation since the snow tends to be more compacted from the plow, I just made sure to go nice and slow when I got to the end of the driveway and was able to clear my driveway and the neighbors without any issues.  Fast forward to the next day and I fired up the tractor to clean up the driveways as we got another couple inches over night.  Was able to finish my driveway but halfway through the neighbors when clearing the end of the driveway the blower shook and the suddenly stopped.  I shut it down and looked around and noticed the belt was broken, I didn't think too much of it as when I put the blower on the tractor the belt was showing some wear but when I saw how expensive the toro belts are I decided to run it as it looked like it would make it through another season no problem.  Once I got it back in the garage I removed the belt and that's when I noticed that something didn't seem right, the spring loaded pulleys on the right side of the pulley box were hanging below the blower frame, I took the chain and belt cover off the blower and noticed there's damage to the main belt pulley on the blower as well.  I pulled the pulley box off and noticed that there's groves worn into the metal from the pulley and what looks like some belt rub.  Anybody have any clues on what caused the belt to fail?  I'm including pictures to hopefully give some clues to those who have used these blowers extensively.  I followed the manual while installing the blower but I'm wondering if maybe I don't have something assembled correctly or am missing some crucial part.  I'd really hate to spend the money on a new belt only to have it blow because I didn't correct the actual issue.  I will say all the bearings seem tight on the blower and there doesn't appear to be any play in the shafts.  I look forward to any insight you guys can offer, thanks.

 

 

 

 

[WHMan2012 170]

I Don't Have One Of These Units, But For What It's Worth Get A Manual On This Unit And Double Check Everything. It Looks Like Maybe There's A Spring Missing That Broke Off On The Previous Owner Or Something Of That Nature And When It Made That Noise Or Vibration You Heard, They Decided To Get Rid Of It. Also Check For Slotted Pulley Holes, Sometimes People Like To Open Them Up A Little Bit To Either Accommodate Another Size Belt Because Of Price Or To Try And Make The Belt Even Tighter Than Is Recommended Because Of Slipping. Also It Would Be Good To Know If All The Pulleys Are The Correct Size As Well, Maybe It's Supposed To Be A Different Size. People Do What They Do To Keep Things Running And Without That Information At The Time Of Sale, We're Left Scratching Our Heads. Good Luck I Hope Some Of This Helps You Out.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,033]

What is the serial number of this 79366? I'm sure in the 10 year run there were changes made to the unit and the serial number will date it so you can get the proper ipl. Here is a list of all of them

https://www.partstree.com/parts/search/models/?searchTerm=79366

 

Here is what we have on it and there is one 8-page service bulletin 

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/search/?&q=79366&type=downloads_file&search_and_or=or

 

Garry

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

Check the auger gearbox for oil, if it was leaking which most do, then you most likely ran it out oil and hence maybe locked up the impeller to auger which is driven by the PTO pulleys, how about a picture of the auger gearbox and impeller, also those thin bronze bushings on the end of the auger are to say the least a joke...many threads on here of the 2stage redone for the classics same basic unit except for how the PTO drives it.

[Lane Ranger 10,946]

You may also need to pull the pulleys off and check the bearings in them to see that they are all turning smooth.   Bearings on these can fail and lock up.    Also I have found new belt is always a cheaper item to buy on a tractor and the attachments than the alternatives.    Tillers, snowblowers and mower deck drive belts get a lot of abuse.  The parts manuals Garry posted should help ID any other issues!   If you need more help post what you need and this Red Square bunch should narrow down the culprit!

[JoeM 7,871]

Kind of looks like the belt broke and doubled over in the drive pulley. Figure if all the other stuff the guys pointed out is good, and it turns easy, that is probably what happened. I am not to familiar with XI models but is there clutch that slips or does it rely on the belt? Wondering what happens if you hit a pile of frozen snow.

[bizzo15 52]

8 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

What is the serial number of this 79366? I'm sure in the 10 year run there were changes made to the unit and the serial number will date it so you can get the proper ipl. Here is a list of all of them

https://www.partstree.com/parts/search/models/?searchTerm=79366

 

Here is what we have on it and there is one 8-page service bulletin 

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/search/?&q=79366&type=downloads_file&search_and_or=or

 

Garry

It’s a 2xxxx aerial number which I believe is a 1999 vintage.  I looked at the parts viewer on toro and everything looks like it’s there that’s why I was hoping someone could look at the pics I uploaded and see something obvious wrong. 

[bizzo15 52]

3 hours ago, Lane Ranger said:

You may also need to pull the pulleys off and check the bearings in them to see that they are all turning smooth.   Bearings on these can fail and lock up.    Also I have found new belt is always a cheaper item to buy on a tractor and the attachments than the alternatives.    Tillers, snowblowers and mower deck drive belts get a lot of abuse.  The parts manuals Garry posted should help ID any other issues!   If you need more help post what you need and this Red Square bunch should narrow down the culprit!

 

 

Youre right about a new belt being cheaper and it was me being a cheapskate and that usually always comes back to bite me. Someday I might learn. I will double check all pulley bearings to see if I notice a bad bearing. 

[bizzo15 52]

4 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Check the auger gearbox for oil, if it was leaking which most do, then you most likely ran it out oil and hence maybe locked up the impeller to auger which is driven by the PTO pulleys, how about a picture of the auger gearbox and impeller, also those thin bronze bushings on the end of the auger are to say the least a joke...many threads on here of the 2stage redone for the classics same basic unit except for how the PTO drives it.

The auger still turns freely but I will take some pics and double check the oil level when I get home from work. 

[bizzo15 52]

So I finally had time to check the auger gearbox and impeller, everything turns freely without any suspicious noises while being turned by hand.  I removed the drain plug to the gearbox and it appears to be low on oil so i topped it off but I doesn't appear it was ran dry or anything.  Here are some pics as requested.  Let me know if you spot something out of the ordinary, this is my first wheel two stage snow thrower so I don't know exactly what's normal or not.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,033]

If the serial number starts with a 2 it is 2000 or later. This link shows all the serials

https://www.partstree.com/parts/search/models/?searchTerm=79366

 

The service bulletin likely makes changes to the unit that following models came with. Have no knowledge on this model.

 

Garry

[bizzo15 52]

So today when I got home from work I walked into the garage and immediately smelled the distinctive smell of gear oil.  I walked over to the blower and it had leaked all the gear oil I put into it on Saturday.  So now my guess is that the gear box was empty and caused my belt failure.  Weird that it still spins freely with no noises but I'm going to guess the internals are toast.  I did a couple preliminary searches but couldn't find anything where someone did a detailed rebuild thread on one of these two stages.  Does anyone know where I could locate a how to or a detailed rebuild thread so I can see what I'm getting myself into when I tear this apart?  At this point I think I'd like to go through the whole blower top to bottom so it's turn key for next season as I doubt I'll have to the time to properly repair it this winter and I have a backup walk behind blower I can use.

[WHMan2012 170]

First Off, These Gear Boxes All Seep After A Few Years, Not Uncommon. If You're Able To Spin This Around With No Noise Or Hesitation, I would Snug Up The Bolts On The Gear Case For Now, Fill It Back Up And Look Else Where For The Problem. I Think The Shaking You Felt Was The Belt Rolling Over Before It Broke. Try Fixing The Pulley And Put Another Belt On It And Try Rolling It Over Slowly With The Engine And Listen To It Carefully. If You See Or Hear Something That Just Isn't Quite Right Then, Then Shut It Down And Start Your Teardown Process. But If It Were Me I'd At Least Like To Know Why Before I Start Putting Time And Labor Into Something Without Knowing What The Cause For The Belt Breaking Was In The First Place. Could Be Just An Old Cracked Belt That Caught The Pulley Just Right Which Caused It To Do What It Did. Just My Opinion, Good Luck And Let Us Know What You Find.

[bc.gold 3,403]

11 minutes ago, WHMan2012 said:

First Off, These Gear Boxes All Seep After A Few Years, Not Uncommon. If You're Able To Spin This Around With No Noise Or Hesitation, I would Snug Up The Bolts On The Gear Case For Now, Fill It Back Up And Look Else Where For The Problem. I Think The Shaking You Felt Was The Belt Rolling Over Before It Broke. Try Fixing The Pulley And Put Another Belt On It And Try Rolling It Over Slowly With The Engine And Listen To It Carefully. If You See Or Hear Something That Just Isn't Quite Right Then, Then Shut It Down And Start Your Teardown Process. But If It Were Me I'd At Least Like To Know Why Before I Start Putting Time And Labor Into Something Without Knowing What The Cause For The Belt Breaking Was In The First Place. Could Be Just An Old Cracked Belt That Caught The Pulley Just Right Which Caused It To Do What It Did. Just My Opinion, Good Luck And Let Us Know What You Find.

 

Corn head grease was especially developed for gear cases, no more leaks.

 

[bc.gold 3,403]

On 1/28/2019 at 4:31 PM, bizzo15 said:

So today when I got home from work I walked into the garage and immediately smelled the distinctive smell of gear oil.  I walked over to the blower and it had leaked all the gear oil I put into it on Saturday.  So now my guess is that the gear box was empty and caused my belt failure.  Weird that it still spins freely with no noises but I'm going to guess the internals are toast.  I did a couple preliminary searches but couldn't find anything where someone did a detailed rebuild thread on one of these two stages.  Does anyone know where I could locate a how to or a detailed rebuild thread so I can see what I'm getting myself into when I tear this apart?  At this point I think I'd like to go through the whole blower top to bottom so it's turn key for next season as I doubt I'll have to the time to properly repair it this winter and I have a backup walk behind blower I can use.

 

You say the auger turns, from which end of the gear case, input shaft or by grabbing an auger on the output side of the gear case. If the auger spins freely like it has a broken shear pin then the brass crown gear inside your drive is toast.

 

[bizzo15 52]

7 hours ago, bcgold said:

 

You say the auger turns, from which end of the gear case, input shaft or by grabbing an auger on the output side of the gear case. If the auger spins freely like it has a broken shear pin then the brass crown gear inside your drive is toast.

 

It turns freely from the input shaft side, I can't turn it using the augers.

[bizzo15 52]

7 hours ago, bcgold said:

 

Corn head grease was especially developed for gear cases, no more leaks.

 

A buddy suggested this as well, definitely what it will get refilled with, thanks.

[bizzo15 52]

7 hours ago, WHMan2012 said:

First Off, These Gear Boxes All Seep After A Few Years, Not Uncommon. If You're Able To Spin This Around With No Noise Or Hesitation, I would Snug Up The Bolts On The Gear Case For Now, Fill It Back Up And Look Else Where For The Problem. I Think The Shaking You Felt Was The Belt Rolling Over Before It Broke. Try Fixing The Pulley And Put Another Belt On It And Try Rolling It Over Slowly With The Engine And Listen To It Carefully. If You See Or Hear Something That Just Isn't Quite Right Then, Then Shut It Down And Start Your Teardown Process. But If It Were Me I'd At Least Like To Know Why Before I Start Putting Time And Labor Into Something Without Knowing What The Cause For The Belt Breaking Was In The First Place. Could Be Just An Old Cracked Belt That Caught The Pulley Just Right Which Caused It To Do What It Did. Just My Opinion, Good Luck And Let Us Know What You Find.

Good point, I tend to  rush to worst case scenario on situations like these.  Makes more sense to do what you're suggesting and go for there.  Thanks for putting it into perspective for me.

[WHMan2012 170]

I've Never Tried Any Grease In Place Of Gear Oil, For The Fear It Would Eventually Move Away From The Gears And Leave Them Unprotected. How Is This Grease Different From Ordinary Grease And What Keeps It From Moving Away From The Gears At Full RPM's ? I'd Like To See A Before And After Video If There Is One Showing That After Hours Of Use The Gears Are Still Well Lubed Like They Would Be If There Was Gear Oil In The Casing. Not Saying It Doesn't Work, Just Curious As To How It Works Better Over Gear Oil, That's All. I Did See Where Some People Mix Grease And Gear Oil 50/50, But I Can't Comment On That Because I've Never Tried It. Either Way Let Us Know How You Make Out.

[bc.gold 3,403]

10 minutes ago, WHMan2012 said:

I've Never Tried Any Grease In Place Of Gear Oil, For The Fear It Would Eventually Move Away From The Gears And Leave Them Unprotected. How Is This Grease Different From Ordinary Grease And What Keeps It From Moving Away From The Gears At Full RPM's ? I'd Like To See A Before And After Video If There Is One Showing That After Hours Of Use The Gears Are Still Well Lubed Like They Would Be If There Was Gear Oil In The Casing. Not Saying It Doesn't Work, Just Curious As To How It Works Better Over Gear Oil, That's All. I Did See Where Some People Mix Grease And Gear Oil 50/50, But I Can't Comment On That Because I've Never Tried It. Either Way Let Us Know How You Make Out.

 

My 45 year old Simplicity snow thrower was originally filled with corn head grease no leaks and both gears just like new. Due to aging I decided to replace the grease  two years ago.

 

Listen to the end, corn head grease has many other uses besides.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by bcgold

[WHMan2012 170]

Thank You For The Video, I Never Knew About This Product, Glad You Mentioned It Here. I'll Order Some And Give It A Try, Got A Few Toys To Try It On Up Here.

[JoeM 7,871]

We used a similar product manufactured by Fuchs called Renolit LSTO. Its a synthetic gear lubricant suitable for many problem industrial gearboxes and bearings, especially ones that leaked. It is kind of a semifluid gear oil.

Pretty expensive the last time I looked.

That corn head grease seems to be the ticket. I see it is a polyurea base, just don't mix it with lithium based greases. A lot of your hand pump greases used today are lithium complex.

We used polyurea grease in very extreme places and its use was fully supervised. When you mix the two it will turn to a wax consistency and nothing will get lubed.

I don't think the lube in your snow blower is going to be a problem using the JD grease, I would drain, flush and then refill with the JD grease just to get a good start.

Sounds like good stuff for those pesky tiller seals that seep.

Edited February 2, 2019 by OILUJ52

[peter lena 8,583]

that corn head grease sounds like the deal idea, from bizzo15 , I would top off that gear box and use that as my opportunity to test part replacement repairs. that pulley  frame looks well worn, but now you have info on repairs and parts. that grease will make that part of the problem go away, leaving you to rebuild or replace the pulley frame, as stated I would also use that grease on related areas of this blower. good luck on that , pete