Starter/generator direction

[rdeanrj58 68]

Ok another electrical question for you experts.   I have a 10 hp Kohler that was on a B-80 when I bought it.   PO had installed a S/G on it that spins opposite direction.  He had fabricated a piece on crankshaft opposite of the flywheel side    My question is can the direction of spin be changed and is it something I could do ?  I'm too much of a purist for that unorthodox set up.   He did do a nice job on it I might add.     Thanks for any input .    I believe s/g might be from a Cub Cadet??

[ebinmaine 68,623]

You're likely correct about the original Tractor being a cub.

 

Yes you can change the direction of rotation by taking apart the S/G.

 

@pfrederi or @953 nut maybe could elaborate?

 

[pfrederi 17,929]

If you can reverse it it is beyond my level.  At this point mine would go to a pro. If it has been run for a long time that way the armature contacts would need undercutting.

Edited December 15, 2018 by pfrederi

[rdeanrj58 68]

Thanks.   I never thought about the wear from spinning that direction 

[WHNJ701 4,165]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

You're likely correct about the original Tractor being a cub.

 

Yes you can change the direction of rotation by taking apart the S/G.

 

@pfrederi or @953 nut maybe could elaborate?

 

I never heard that about changing directions??  seems more trouble than its worth 

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

Odd. 

[953 nut 56,015]

Here is some good information from Brian Miller's site.

Information on Kohler (and most small engines) Charging Systems 

First of all, the battery's only purpose in virtually any vehicle is to provide power to the starter motor to crank the engine and power electrical accessories when the engine isn't running. When the engine is running, and while the battery is being recharged, the alternator or generator then powers the electrical accessories through the voltage rectifier/regulator. With the engine running, and with a good working charging system, the battery has nothing to do with powering the electrical accessories. The ignition system also have nothing to do with the charging system. It's only purpose is to provide spark to the engine. The charging system and ignition system are two totally separate systems. One has nothing to do with the other, other than the charging system provides power to the battery-powered ignition system. A magneto or solid state ignition is a stand-alone system. It does not depend on the battery or charging system whatsoever.

The Generator Charging System -

The voltage-producing generating part of a starter/generator (or just the generator unit in an older automobile or heavy equipment machinery) produces DC (direct current) electricity. These are belt-driven and require a mechanical voltage regulator to regulate the charge to the battery and power electrical accessories (such as lights, electric PTO clutch, etc.) at the same time. The faster the engine runs, the more voltage and amperage the generator produces. And unlike a belt-driven automotive-type alternator, the generator is self-energizing. It will produce its own electricity when spun fast enough. A charged battery is not required.

Although bulky, heavy and uses more space next to the engine, this system is reliable, but produce little- to no-charge at low idle speeds and are considered obsolete by today's standards. Also, this system require more horsepower from the engine than the alternator system while recharging the battery and/or under a heavy electrical load.

I don't rebuild starter/generators. A business that specializes in rebuilding automotive starters, alternators and generators can also rebuild starter/generators. Or, you can purchase a new or used starter/generator off of eBay.

On some starter/generators and for identification purposes only, the "A" (Armature) terminal may be bigger (#12) than the "F" (Field) terminal (#10). IMPORTANT - If the wires for the Armature and Field are connected to the wrong terminals on the starter/generator (reversed connection), the field windings inside will burn up instantly (lots of smoke) upon engine start up!Anyway, the correct wiring connections for the starter/generator is as follows...

• Two wires connects to the "A" terminal on the starter/generator:
  • A minimum 8 AWG wire connects from the "A" terminal on the starter/generator to one of the big post on the heavy duty push-button starter switch or starter solenoid/relay. This connection cranks over the engine. (The other big post on the heavy duty push-button starter switch or starter solenoid/relay connects to the battery positive (+) post.)
  • A 14 AWG wire connects from the "A" terminal on the starter/generator to the "A" terminal on the voltage regulator. (This wire provides electricity to recharge the battery and power electrical accessories.)
• A 14 AWG wire connects from the "F" terminal on the starter/generator to the "F" terminal on the voltage regulator. (This is the Field windings energizing wire.)
• Mounting base of voltage regulator must be grounded to starter/generator, engine or tractor frame (battery negative (–) post).

 

---

A starter/generator can be adapted to virtually any horizontal shaft or vertical shaft small engine with a fabricated mounting bracket and a slotted adjusting brace to tighten the belt. The starter/generator will need to be installed opposite the carburetor side of the block. They come in two rotations: clockwise and counter-clockwise. Starter/generators that spin clockwise came on older Wheel Horse, Sears Suburban, Bolens, or any engine that's started from the flywheel end. A counter-clockwise starter/generator came mostly on older Cub Cadets, or any engine that's started from the PTO end. A clockwise rotation starter/generator will need to be used if it's driven from the flywheel end. But if it's driven from the PTO end, it will need to be a counter-clockwise rotation starter/generator. If the wrong starter/generator is used, it'll crank the engine opposite of normal rotation, and not recharge the battery.

If a starter/generator is belt-driven by an engine and used only as a generator to charge up a vehicle's battery and/or power 12 volt appliances or lights, the heavy battery cable won't need to be used. And there's about a 3:1 ratio between the starter/generator and engine. This means the starter/generator spins about 3 times faster than the engine. So the pulley on the engine will need to be about 3 times bigger than the pulley on the starter/generator to adequately recharge a battery and/or power 12 volt electrical appliances or lights. A starter/generator require a minimum 7/16hp engine running at a governored 3,600 RPM for it to produce a regulated 15 amps @ 13.5 volts. (15 amps x 13.5 volts = 202.5 watts x 2 = 405 = .4hp engine.) Read on the back label of the appliance you plan to use for how many amps it draws, then you'll know if the generator will be able to handle the load.

But on a pulling tractor, if the engine isn't going to have a charging system, a voltage regulator and wiring isn't required as long as the battery is fully charged with a remote battery charger before the engine is ran again. Plus, the battery will need to be in a secure place, and route the wiring in a safe manner. Go here to learn how to repair a Delco-Remy starter/generator: Delco-Remy SG Repair.pdf. (require Adobe Acrobat Reader and use Google Chrome web browser for a faster download of web sites with large files.)

[ebinmaine 68,623]

1 hour ago, jabelman said:

I never heard that about changing directions??  seems more trouble than its worth 

I had only heard about it just recently because of trying to get the 1267 up and running and charging.

Some models of starter generators are driven and drive off of the opposite end than what the Wheelhorse ones do.

From what I remember reading you can switch the drive direction by basically rebuilding the unit. While doing so there is a wire to be switched or a field unit to be swapped.

How much trouble it would be I guess would be dependent on if you had another one on hand ...or...  if you had the skills and parts to rebuild the one you do have.

Not something I would be likely to try.

 

[dclarke 4,034]

You need to switch the field coils to reverse the rotation. Taking it to an electrical rebuild shop would probably be a good idea. 

[KC9KAS 4,741]

35 minutes ago, dclarke said:

Taking it to an electrical rebuild shop would probably be a good idea. 

Or just find the correct S/G for a Wheel Horse!

[rdeanrj58 68]

I was just trying to use what I have if possible.   Sounds like it could be too costly 

[ebinmaine 68,623]

4 minutes ago, rdeanrj58 said:

I was just trying to use what I have if possible.   Sounds like it could be too costly 

I try as hard as I can to do the same thing.

There's a certain amount of... Value... In everything we do.

Also like you, I would want it to at least look like it's driven from the correct side as a Wheelhorse would be.

In this particular case it might be your best bet to verify that your unit is charging correctly and then sell or trade it for the correct one.

There are plenty of IH Cub collectors that would purchase the one you have.

 

[rdeanrj58 68]

That is an excellent idea