551 Suburban Transmission Rebuild

[oliver2-44 9,870]

Finally started to rebuild this 5025? transmission that goes to the 551 Suburban I am restoring.  With @stevasaurus and @Racinbob help I've rebuilt 2 three piece transmission, but this will be my 1st 2 piece case transmission rebuild.

I've watched Steve's great videos, and have one question.  My input shaft has a little in/out movement.  I've learned on the 3 pc transmissions you want to shim the bottom bearing to remove this.  Since the input shaft gear to the internal gear on this 2 piece 5025 is the same I would expect i need to shim something? If that is correct what do I shim.  Here's some pictures of the disassembly and cleaned up parts.    I've received all my new bearings and seals from Motion Industries, except they shorted me one, so I'm waiting on that and the input shimming question to proceed with reassembly.

 

     I started by heating and driving out the frozed hitch pin the PO had cut off. My brass flanged shear pin is a much used driver

Success!

I had flushed the transmission with diesel, so the internals were not covered with heavy gear oil. 

I used a rare earth magnet (strong) to catch the shifter balls, spring and pin as I pushed them out, worked great!

 

This tractor had set for quite a while. Interestingly the Top Upper half of the transmission case and the upper exposed gears were slightly rusted from being exposed so long I guess. Thankfully so signs of water rust deteoriation on the lower gears.

Differential disassembly, I'll reuse the bolts, but have bought new metal (not nylock) lock nuts for reassembly.  Is there any torque spec, or just good and tight.

Input shaft and shifter gears. The larger shift gear and input gear show wear on there edges.  I'm thinking to reuse these gears, but welcome input here. My thought is to do a dry reassembly and see if I can make it jump out of gear

The internal mating gear to the input gear looks better than I expected, knowing there was slop  on this shaft before I disassembled it. 

I'll be back to add more picture comments,

I just got a Grandpa call to go help my daughter-in-law and watch grandson #1 Jeremy while she takes 10 month old grandson #2 Kent to the doctor with a stomach bug.

 

Im back to finish this. I got some training from grandson Jeremy on how precise you have to assemble gears

 

Brake shaft gears look excellent

Differential axle gears look veryhoid

The differential pinions are good

The small gear (3rd gear?) part of the cluster gear has the most wear

 

These gears all look very good

Both shift forks are very good

The case internals cleaned up nicely

Always like to see the new Regal Red. I tapped the old bearings back in slightly to use as masking post

Shiny stainless new case hardware

 

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by oliver2-44

[Racinbob 11,232]

When you check the in/out play make sure the shifter is in 3rd gear. At that point you don't want any play. If there is, measure how much and slip the correct thickness thrust washer on the input shaft before you install it in the case 

[Achto 27,790]

1 hour ago, oliver2-44 said:

Is there any torque spec, or just good and tight.

 

I use this torque sheet for just about every thing except head & connecting rod bolts.http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tables/torque.htm

[WHX?? 49,171]

I though the specs might have been in the manual Ollie. You have the steel end bells so Dan's chart is fine. Aluminum end plates you do not want to over torque, they can be cracked.

Your internals look good, try tying into one like this sometime!

 

nope no spec here

Edited December 10, 2018 by WHX21

[WHX?? 49,171]

3 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

bought new metal (not nylock) lock nuts for reassembly.

I used new nylocks last time around ... did I screw up? Pretty sure that's what was in it (six speed, ten pinion).

 

Now might be the time to add that second over the hump drain & magnetic plugs.

Edited December 10, 2018 by WHX21

[oliver2-44 9,870]

Thanks for mentioning adding the 2nd drain @WHX21. Sadly the 1st 3 piece transmission I opened almost made that one of yours look clean.  

 

@Achto & @Racinbob I appreciate your comments

[new2horses 287]

Jim,

 I could be way off base here, but those new fasteners look to be stainless steel. If so, ditch all of them in favor of grade 5 steel. You won't be sorry.

David

[stevasaurus 22,868]

Jim, in a couple of your case pictures, I think I am seeing some broken pieces of bearing race.  Make sure your cap bearings are flush with the outside of the case and any inside bearings are flush with the inside when you put things back together.  I think I would try to find a better cluster gear.  Everything else cleaned up real nice. 

[953 nut 55,812]

On 12/10/2018 at 1:23 PM, oliver2-44 said:

I got some training from grandson Jeremy

Looks like he knows what he is doing, bet Grandpa has been teaching him a thing or two.     

[oliver2-44 9,870]

Jeremy did a good job assembling the differential, he likes being in the shop

 

I recently picked up two 8 speed transmissions for parts, but not sure which exact model they are.  I agree with @stevasaurus recommendation to replace the cluster gear, I've been going through transmission manuals and have learned the cluster gear is the same part # 3425 and used in every Wheelhorse 3,4,6,8 speed transmissions.  It's of course not used in the peerless models.  So in the process of pulling the 8 speed open for parts, i will probable open both of them up and choose the best parts to make one strong " Worker 8 speed" and the next best cluster gear for the 552.  I'll also compare the input and shift gears to see which are best.  so as always, this project just got a little bigger.

 

Note, Steve mentioned it looked like I had some fragments of old bearing still in the case. Those are the bearing cages that I tapped back in slightly to use to wrap masking tape around so I didn't get paint in the bearing holes when I painted the transmission cases.   

[stevasaurus 22,868]

That picture of Jeremy fitting the bull gear is priceless. 

[oliver2-44 9,870]

Well I pulled apart the rougher liking of the two eight speed trannys to get a cluster gear. It looked so good inside

I decided to move to spare tranny #2. It looked good but had some metal shavings in the diesel when I drained it. It also had more rust rust inside when it came apart,

but not bad. So I decided it was  the worst of the two and robbed the cluster gear from it. 

 

Interestingly I learned the 8 speed tranny cluster gear had hardened steel sleeve bearings where the 4 speed tranny has bronze bushings. Is this normal?l. I could tell someone had been in this tranny before me as the case bolts had blue lock tire on them

Edited January 3, 2019 by oliver2-44

[stevasaurus 22,868]

Now that cluster gear is like brand new...much better.  both of those other trannys should be a pleasure to clean up and put back together.  I have no idea about those steel sleeves.  I don't think I have opened a trans with them yet.  Nice work Jim.  

[Tuneup 1,433]

Life is all about having the young 'uns help - priceless. Merry Christmas!

[oliver2-44 9,870]

As @Racinbob suggested I did a dry assembly and had 0.028ths in out movement of the input shaft in 3rd gear. Actually about the same movement in all gears.  So I made a 0.024ths  washer and put it under the input gear, worked great now 0.002 movement

Everything assembled nicely

Now the question/test.  Which shifter is correct for this 1961 551 transmission.  As the picture shows one measures 2” from bottom of large ball to tip of small ball, the other measures 2-1/4”.  Inch   Both seem to work 

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by oliver2-44

[Racinbob 11,232]

Good question on the shifter. I haven't paid any attention to that. I'm thinking the 2 1/4" because the donut uses a roll pin and somebody was a bit careless at the factory when they welded the donut on the other one. I think I have a few shifters so I'll head down the hill tomorrow and measure them. Some variance is acceptable but that seems like a lot. 

[stevasaurus 22,868]

The one thing I see...2 pictures up...the reduction and pinion gears should be at the same level.  They need to be even.  One higher then the other is not an option.