VINYLGUY'S 857 PROJECT

[Vinylguy 4,673]

Got my new find home today. Well not home home but home to my buddies shop for the winter.

I try to get up to the shop a couple days a week to BS over a cup of coffee or three.

This little 657 looked better than the pictures so I am very happy with my purchase.

Gary and I are both kind of busy for a few weeks but we will try to get the Kohler running before Thanksgiving and see what I have.

Here is the good news as this appears to be a good news bad news kind of thing.

 So here's what was in my mirror this morning. Brake was pretty good rolling of the trailer and it seems to shift in and out of all gears

as expected.

 

Here's a little better picture of it once I got her in the shop. The paint is very nice but once you look it over the seat pan and frame are a slightly different shade of red.

but all in all it will make a very good looking worker. IT looks to have been a tire on rim paint job but up close it was a good one.

 

The deck is really nice. no rot anywhere. Can not be the original deck. If the tractor had enough hours on it to burn up the Techy

then you would think the deck would have some dings and dents?

 

 

The shifter boot looks to be original but still in pretty good condition

 

 

Not sure where he got this seat but it is a beauty.  Nice to sit on also!!

 

Found the rope when I opened the hood. There is a slot on the front of the frame that appears to be a hood stop but the tab appears a bit bent and does not go in the slot?

 

As usual its not all good news so here is a bit of bad news. Hopefully not too bad.

Took a picture under the kohler and found this ugly mess.

 Sure looks like a big problem to me but I am no mechanic.

 

 

The wiring is suspect also. the back of the switch looks like it was hot at one time Maybe the wires were hooked up wrong?

Also there is no dip stick?  Once I know the wiring is right and I get the new battery in we will find out if I have a $400 roller or

a very nice 857 ready for work. If the engine is bad I will take it out and get it to Holden's Machine shop and hope he can get it healthy in time for spring.

Bill does incredible work but you don't want to tell him your in no hurry. He always has 10 things going at once it seems.

 So let me know what you think guys. Good and Bad. Will download the manual for an 857. 

Your input and advice is as always very appreciated.

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Vinylguy

[Pullstart 62,606]

Looks nice Terry!  Keep us updated on the source of that oil slick!

[Blackhood Bill 721]

NNNNIIIIIIIICCCCCCE

[Elkskin's mower junkyard 1,117]

Terry you need to find a hidden spot and put a solenoid in. Those switches are bad news. On older Sears I mess with have a similar style. They overheat when cranking. On Tecumseh Sears (I know not related to this topic exactly) they can knock out the ssi unit. And I seen some start fires. 

[R. L. Addison 299]

Usually about the first thing I do on those, switch & solenoid.

[Razorback 1,035]

Yep, I would replace the switch, as it probably got hot cranking.

 

The lack of oil dipstick.... is that just one of those where you fill until it runs out of the hole?

 

Will be interesting to see where the oil slick is coming from. 

 

Otherwise, it’s beautiful!

[SPINJIM 1,981]

2 hours ago, Vinylguy said:

Also there is no dip stick?

 

If it's like my 856, the dip stick is attached to the square headed, screw-in plug shown in your picture.  The longer dip sticks came later.

Looks like a nice tractor, and not too big a project.   You done good.

   Jim

 

[bellevillerod 834]

Good looking tractor for sure! Anything can be corrected, don't ask how I know lol. That's one sharp tractor @ 400 not a bad deal at all. Good luck hopefully it will be easy. 

[19richie66 17,484]

I think you have a really nice tractor there. The oil looks like it could be the crank seal behind the flywheel. No big deal if you are pulling it to have your friend work his magic. Will be a great example when done. 

[ebinmaine 67,029]

3 hours ago, SPINJIM said:

 

If it's like my 856, the dip stick is attached to the square headed, screw-in plug shown in your picture.  The longer dip sticks came later.

Looks like a nice tractor, and not too big a project.   You done good.

   Jim

 

Yeah that...

You take it out, wipe it off. Set it on the edge of the hole... NOT screwed in ... To check oil level.

 

The switch has been a bit of a problem child forever.

I agree that it's burnt basically from normal wear.

I have replaced one here with a solenoid and that gets the amperage out of the switch which is very good.

BUT ... I doesn't sound right to me after that because solenoids click loudly. That engine with a starter/generator has a unique way of starting without the loud engagement noises of later engines and I like to hear that.

 

I put a HD replacement switch in the 1267. They're on the popular auction site.

If I can find the link I'll share it.

It should be in the thread about my 1267.

 

[squonk 40,918]

7 hours ago, Vinylguy said:

Got my new find home today. Well not home home but home to my buddies shop for the winter.

I try to get up to the shop a couple days a week to BS over a cup of coffee or three.

This little 657 looked better than the pictures so I am very happy with my purchase.

Gary and I are both kind of busy for a few weeks but we will try to get the Kohler running before Thanksgiving and see what I have.

Here is the good news as this appears to be a good news bad news kind of thing.

 So here's what was in my mirror this morning. Brake was pretty good rolling of the trailer and it seems to shift in and out of all gears

 

 

The deck is really nice. no rot anywhere. Can not be the original deck. If the tractor had enough hours on it to burn up the Techy

 

 

 

 

 

I can burn up a Tecky in a half hour! 

[19richie66 17,484]

I just threw away two teckys😎

[953 nut 54,854]

                                                               

Terry, that is one fine looking  .    I too have added a solenoid for safety sake. The notion of a battery lead with no fuse protection going behind the gas tank is a bit frightening to me. When that 70 amp switch fails there will be an arc just like a welder.     

[AMC RULES 37,117]

 From the factory, that switch came with a cover to prevent  it from shorting out. 

[Retired Wrencher 5,425]

Terry Craig is right. there was an clear plastic wrapper that went around the switch. When I had many of these I think you remember I had a 657 and many more of these models 857to1257 never had a problem. Tecky`s where a great engine with bad carburetor design. Not sure where the oil leak is by the picture. The PO did a good paint job from what I can see. When done it will be a fine tractor. Just make up an 857 decal for it.

[artfull dodger 394]

Great looking tractor, oil leak is most likely the crankshaft seal under the flywheel as stated, can be fixed with the engine in the tractor easily.  A fresh key switch obviously and I also like to keep the nice quiet starting of the "starter gen" style set up without the high amp relay.  But that is a personal choice and solely up to you.  Its a shame the techys had such a crab carb design, really tainted the brand even before the SSI issues that plague so many of them now.    Those early dip stick style engines are a PITA to check oil levels with the stick.     Mike the Aspie

[Tankman 3,516]

Great Horse! Problems seem minor, have more java!  

[ZXT 2,401]

I assume "Tecky" i short for Tecumseh? I didn't know that 857's came with them. At any rate, the Kohler is a better engine IMO. Edit: Nevermind, i see now that it's a 657.. 

 

Taking the load off of that switch is probably the best thing you could do. It might be rated for the load, but I still don't like to let a switch carry all of it. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by ZXT

[AMC RULES 37,117]

 Nevermind, I see your nevermind. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by AMC RULES

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,497]

Terry, super sweet. Best of luck.

 

Glenn

[Vinylguy 4,673]

On 11/12/2018 at 2:39 AM, 19richie66 said:

I think you have a really nice tractor there. The oil looks like it could be the crank seal behind the flywheel. No big deal if you are pulling it to have your friend work his magic. Will be a great example when done. 

 

What normally is the cause of seals going bad?

First thing I need to do is check the compression. May need an overhaul?

Might as well do this up right

[953 nut 54,854]

2 hours ago, Vinylguy said:

What normally is the cause of seals going bad?

Same thing that causes us to have diminished ability to hold it in some time,      Old Age.            

A compression test will not give you good results on a Kohler engine due to the ACR (automatic compression release). A leak down test will track down any potential problems. A good engine shop will be able to do the test for a nominal fee or you can buy the test rig at Harbor Freight.

An internal combustion engine makes power by first drawing air and fuel into the combustion chamber. Next is the compression of the mixture and the addition of a spark. The harnessing of the resulting contained explosion is ultimately what powers the car. As an engine gets on in miles, the containment of this power can be lost due to piston ring, valve or cylinder wall wear. Engine performance will suffer as a result.

Pressure reading
A common test of an engine’s ability to compress the air-fuel mixture is an engine compression test. A pressure gauge is connected in place of the spark plug. The engine is then cranked to create a pressure reading. A compression test is a good way to check the engine’s ability to create pressure. The gauge reads the positive pressure created by the cylinder.

 

Loss reading
An engine leakdown test is a compression test in reverse. Instead of measuring the engine’s ability to create pressure, compressed air is introduced into the cylinder through the spark plug hole. One gauge on the tester measures the pressure of the air entering the cylinder and the other measures the percentage of the air escaping (or leaking) from the cylinder. The loss percentage will indicate the condition of the cylinder and overall condition of the engine.

Top dead center
Before sending air into the engine, the cylinder being tested must be placed at Top Dead Center (TDC). The piston must be at the top of its travel. The intake and exhaust valves must be closed. When the air is compressed into the cylinder, the leakdown tester will measure any loss of air escaping past valves or piston rings. If the cylinder is not at TDC, air escaping past an open valve will give a false reading.

Reading results
No engine will have perfect sealing with 0 percent loss. Five to 10 percent loss indicates an engine in great to good running order. An engine between 10 and 20 percent can still run OK, but it’ll be time to keep an eye (or ear) on things. Above 20 percent loss and it may be time for a teardown and rebuild. Thirty percent? Major problems. The percent of leakage should also be consistent across the cylinders. Any great differences indicate a problem in that cylinder.

Hearing problems
Beyond getting an overall picture of engine condition, the engine leakdown test is an excellent way to pinpoint where problems are before tearing down the engine. Listening for where the air is escaping by ear can isolate the problem.

• Intake valve : Air whistling out of the intake, carburetor or throttle body indicates a leak at the intake valve.
• Exhaust valve : Air heard hissing out of the tailpipe, turbocharger or exhaust manifold means an exhaust valve leak.
• Piston rings : Whistling or hissing out of the PCV valve, oil filler cap hole or dipstick tube means the air is pushing past the rings. Suspect ring or cylinder wall wear.
• Head gasket : Air bubbles in engine coolant seen at the radiator filler cap could mean air escaping into the coolant past the head gasket.
• Cracked cylinder head : Bubbles in coolant or coolant being pushed up out of the radiator neck can also indicate cracks in the cylinder head or cylinder walls.

Tools, supplies and instructions
You will need a compressed air source, a leakdown gauge kit, spark plug socket, basic hand tools, vehicle service manual and a notepad to record results.

Step 1 : Remove the spark plugs and rotate the engine to put the cylinder to be tested at TDC. Tip: Insert a long screwdriver or extension into the spark plug hole and turn the engine by hand with a socket on the crankshaft. When the screwdriver stops rising or falling, you’re at TDC. Don’t turn the engine backward if TDC is missed. Go around again. In a four-cylinder engine, cylinders one and four and two and three are at TDC at the same time.

 

---

Step 2 : Figure out which spark plug adapter works best and connect the gauge into the hole. Put the vehicle in gear and set the parking brake to prevent the engine from turning when air is compressed into the cylinder. Start with the regulator turned counterclockwise to zero the incoming pressure. Connect compressed air. Turn the regulator clockwise to pressurize air into the cylinder.

---

Step 3 : Record leakage percentage for the cylinder. Remove the oil dipstick, radiator cap and oil filler cap. Open the throttle body or remove the air cleaner. Listen and watch. Wherever air is escaping will indicate where the problem is. Disconnect the gauge and move to the next cylinder.

[WHX?? 48,598]

Holy cripes Richard now I'm a mechanic! 

Nice score Terry  get her in good shape and use her! Yes the dipstick is on the end, or should be, of the plug. Just rest the plug on top of the block to check level per manual. 

[Vinylguy 4,673]

14 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Same thing that causes us to have diminished ability to hold it in some time,      Old Age.            

 

 Thanks Dick. Very informative. Remember I am a real rookie when it comes to engines.

Maybe I will just change the seal and get it running first.

 

 

[Vinylguy 4,673]

Very happy to say that I do not have a $400 roller. Got the battery in today and the little Kohler came to life. 

Runs and sounds great and was not blowing smoke. Next step will be replacing the crank seal. Also discovered a leaky fuel shut off valve.

Wont get to these repairs till after Thanksgiving but to say I am excited about this is an understatement.

 Where should I look to find another petcock for the tank?