Predator 22HP Engine Swap. Who has done one???

[pfrederi 17,739]

3 hours ago, 953 nut said:

The electric clutch on mt GT-14 draws ten to eleven amps.

 

 

Interesting.  I happen to have two Electric PTOs sitting on the work bench.  Grabbed an extra battery and my multi meter..According to it they both drew less than 4 amps.  (one about  3.25 the other 3.48....  I memory serves (and it frequently does not) that is near what the amp meter on my C175 shows when I use the electric PTO for the Sweepster

Edited October 26, 2018 by pfrederi

[Goldnboy 920]

36 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Both the 13 and 22 HP Predators have ball bearings on the crankshaft.  Why would you want to add another???

 

The plate was nothing but a flat piece of steel with a hole in the center sized to the outer race and a notch on the edge that locked into a pin on the block.  You could use a bolt into a predator mounting hole instead.

Thanks I didn't know the smaller Predator had ball bearings since most builds are using the electric PTO.  That is why I suggested the thrust plate which is seldom talked about.

[953 nut 55,228]

I was just going by the amp meter on the tractor, at half throttle it shows 10 amps charging and drops to zero when the PTO is turned on.

[pfrederi 17,739]

24 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

I was just going by the amp meter on the tractor, at half throttle it shows 10 amps charging and drops to zero when the PTO is turned on.

Rich: with switch in run engine off you should show 0 amps  (If you still have breakerless ignition) then turn the pto on what discharge rate do you get?

Edited October 26, 2018 by pfrederi

[WildmanC120 613]

Well got the engine running today.  Sounds pretty good.  Now that I know it runs, over the next few days I will remove the stock key switch box from side of engine and rewire it to use the stock key switch/controls in the dash.  Only thing left to do is decide on what electric clutch I need for this and modify my exhaust so the hood closes. 

 

Wheel Horse C-161 Predator 22hp 1st Run

 

Wheel Horse C-161 Predator 22hp Drive

[WildmanC120 613]

It's hard to measure but looks like the stock PTO pulleys are somewhere around 5-1/4" give or take.  With the extra power now do you think running 6" PTO pulleys will be an issue?  

[pfrederi 17,739]

The electric PTO dual sheave pulleys are the same diameter as the Manual PTO pulleys.  The crank size 1 or 1-1/8th makes no difference in pulley size

[WildmanC120 613]

10 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

The electric PTO dual sheave pulleys are the same diameter as the Manual PTO pulleys.  The crank size 1 or 1-1/8th makes no difference in pulley size

Did wheel horse offer a electric PTO in 1" crank size though.  

[pfrederi 17,739]

Yes they did

 

Only the hub unit is different between 1 and 1-1/8.  The field coil and pulley parts are the same

Edited October 26, 2018 by pfrederi

[WildmanC120 613]

17 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Yes they did

 

Only the hub unit is different between 1 and 1-1/8.  The field coil and pulley parts are the same

 

Ok looks like I will have to find one with a 1" ID then.  Might be better then find ding an aftermarket unit.

[953 nut 55,228]

4 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Rich: with switch in run engine off you should show 0 amps  (If you still have breakerless ignition) then turn the pto on what discharge rate do you get?

You know I have never done that, probably more accurate. I will take a look Monday, got too much going on this weekend.

[clem 28]

A radial ball bearing is not designed for thrust support

[Paul Van Benschoten 18]

Maybe this question belongs in a different section, but what is the difference between an electric PTO and a manual one? Why would one need thrust support and not the other?

[pfrederi 17,739]

In a manual PTO the friction disk is locked to the crank, they PTO lever pushes the PTO Bell and pulleys against it to engage. You are pushing the crankshaft into the engine.  The normal sleeve bearings with small flanges used in many engines cannot deal with this pressure and will quickly wear out.  In an electric PTO the field coil when activated pulls the pulley drive out towards the coil. no end pressure on the crank.

[Paul Van Benschoten 18]

Thanks pfrederi. 

[lynnmor 7,306]

On 10/26/2018 at 11:40 PM, clem said:

A radial ball bearing is not designed for thrust support

Technically that is true, but look at that small bearing at the outboard end of the manual PTO.

[953 nut 55,228]

On 10/26/2018 at 3:19 PM, pfrederi said:

Rich: with switch in run engine off you should show 0 amps  (If you still have breakerless ignition) then turn the pto on what discharge rate do you get?

Turns out my amp meter shows about four amps draw from the PTO.

[pfrederi 17,739]

3 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Turns out my amp meter shows about four amps draw from the PTO.

 

 

Found this in a TSB on electric PTOs 4 amps is a good reading!!

 

 

[82Caddy 851]

Sleeve adapters all over the place (ebay etc) to go from a 1" crank to a 1 1/8" electric PTO. Might open up a few options for you when hunting PTO's.  Regarding the electric PTO, you'll need to disconnect the oil pressure sensor.  Otherwise with the electric PTO engaged the engine will die.  Lots of folks have used these engines in JD platforms and have experienced the electric PTO shutting the engine down.  Google will tell you exactly what wire to disconnect.

 

Take care when you decide to change the key switch, the wiring won't be the same as what is currently on your tractor and will  need a different key switch then your tractor has now.  The easiest option is to extend the wires from the factory predator switch to your dash.

 

When I used this engine in a D series, I traced the gaskets for the exhaust onto a piece of paper and then cut them out of metal with a piece of black threaded pipe to be able to run stacks or a different style of exhaust.  Another idea for you to consider for exhaust options.

[richmondred01 2,237]

On 10/27/2018 at 9:09 AM, pfrederi said:

In a manual PTO the friction disk is locked to the crank, they PTO lever pushes the PTO Bell and pulleys against it to engage. You are pushing the crankshaft into the engine.  The normal sleeve bearings with small flanges used in many engines cannot deal with this pressure and will quickly wear out.  In an electric PTO the field coil when activated pulls the pulley drive out towards the coil. no end pressure on the crank.

 

100 percent on the money. 

If you are doing these swap outs and want a pto, the electric one is the way to go.

 

 

[WildmanC120 613]

Got the PTO installed today.  Still have to hook up the wire but that's no big deal. 

Also cut my stock exhaust off so that there are just the flanges and a little piece of pipe.  Trying to figure out what to do for a muffler.  I bought some pepper pots but unsure how to attach them if I want to go that route. 

 

 

[WildmanC120 613]

How do I attach these mufflers?  

[WildmanC120 613]

I'm not sure if I care for the look but it would be functional.  I may get some pipe and see if I can use the stock muffler.  

 

If I were to use these I would use 2" pipe instead of the 4" that's on there so they do not stick out as far. 

[WildmanC120 613]

22hp Running with Pepper Pot Mufflers

[USHorse 41]

I used these and the pepper pots screwed right on.  Very tight fit by the oil dipstick but worked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PREDATOR-420cc-HF-THREADED-EXHAUST-ADAPTOR-FLANGE-GENERATOR-GOKART-MINI-BIKE/262865560772?epid=579196641&hash=item3d340224c4:g:bl4AAOSwdGFYrgIR