953 transmission out again 3rd time lol

[stevasaurus 22,869]

Stick a pencil magnet down the shift rail holes to see if they are in there.  You may have to open up your differential also to check on them...believe me, they can get in there.  How does the spring and stop look?  ACE has 1/4" ball bearings for a few cents each.

   If you have the two halves clean, you do not need any gasket cement.  Wheel Horse never used it and I would not suggest it...in case there is a 4th time.

[TravelinJavelin 620]

lol on the 4th time......well steve i haven't got that far yet but i did buy one of the magnets your talking about specific for this job i just hope its small enough its telescopic style looks like a antenna and far as the differential it looks like 4 pinion i can't see 8 little gears or pinions it has 4 holes per side and one little hole i'm really hoping its 8 pinion and also i noticed the threaded end had a touch of chewing too which would indicate to me the bolts are just hair too long possibly?

 

[stevasaurus 22,869]

You do have only 4 pinions in that differential.  Are those axles 1 1/8" ???  They are looking like it.  If the magnet is too big, try a flash light and a long, skinny screw driver with some grease on the end.  The grease will hold onto the ball. 

   I think I know what happened.  You do have the heavy duty transmission #5045.  I believe what happened...the trans broke and it was the bevel gear differential (which has 1 1/8" axles).  That differential was just replaced with an 8 pinion differential (1 1/8" axles), but for some reason it only has 4 pinions in it...plus your axles are the same length.  All this is no problem, just not original.  If you have 4 more pinions, you could add them...if you don't, that is fine.    Mystery solved.   

[TravelinJavelin 620]

ok steve thank you i like what i hear and i guess its a matter of shift rail stuff to get ironed out.....now with the differential only 4 pinion how rugged can you get with this? is it still better or just as rugged as the bevel gear set up? also axles are 1 1/8th too now should i replace the gear oil with 40wt  when ut back together?

 

[953 nut 55,822]

I would think that once the shift rail suction problem is addressed you can safely go to gear oil.

[stevasaurus 22,869]

The 8 pinion is better then the bevel gear, is better then 4 pinions.  If you do not have 4 more pinions, I would go to one of our vendors (A-Z Tractor) and see if he has them.  I would also stick with 90wt gear oil.  Remember the pinions alternate up and down all the way around the differential. 

[TravelinJavelin 620]

ok we'll do thanks Steve i'll see if he has the newer shift rails as well

[ebinmaine 68,401]

I have what you need.

PM sent.

 

[TravelinJavelin 620]

beautiful .....thats awesome thank you!

[Pullstart 63,097]

On 10/30/2018 at 12:14 PM, stevasaurus said:

You do have only 4 pinions in that differential.  Are those axles 1 1/8" ???  They are looking like it.  If the magnet is too big, try a flash light and a long, skinny screw driver with some grease on the end.  The grease will hold onto the ball. 

   I think I know what happened.  You do have the heavy duty transmission #5045.  I believe what happened...the trans broke and it was the bevel gear differential (which has 1 1/8" axles).  That differential was just replaced with an 8 pinion differential (1 1/8" axles), but for some reason it only has 4 pinions in it...plus your axles are the same length.  All this is no problem, just not original.  If you have 4 more pinions, you could add them...if you don't, that is fine.    Mystery solved.   

 

 

I think this this is halfway on topic, maybe not.  Steve I’d love to see a Dino’s Videos of you teaching that banana to dance!

[TravelinJavelin 620]

well finally i got some time too to dig into this took the gears out today and the culprit is a combination of things ........the spring that holds the detent balls was broken the pin wasn't even close to what it was suppose to be then looked at one shift rail and was shaved down hard in the notches or i think anyways so there was alot of things going against this so thanks to ebin were going to correct now so here is some pics some are crappy i admit due to i think i had some gear oil on the lense when taking pics

[ebinmaine 68,401]

Nice to see you've found a reason or two for the gear jam.

Awesome job.

[TravelinJavelin 620]

ok after cleaning things up here i finally got the newer shift rails in and detent balls and spring and pin what a difference........now if anyone has ever watched steveasaurus 's video on putting the detent balls and the last shift rail in place ...he makes it look easy, it took me a good hour plus and finding the right tool to set the ball and setting in the rail but also had to switch ends on the spring and finally i got it ....had actually talked to steve on some tips today and had a great conversation and what a great asset he is to the red square forum now after i got things situated with the gears and all that stuff then took aprt the differential that was in mine and put in the other 4 pinions and got the sequenc of that done then comenced to put through the case and got it lined up and started turning stuff then noticed a binding well come to find out the heads of the bolts are to thick really so where it necks up on the shaft , now this the i think its called the 11/44 tooth gear the heads from the bull gear are just catching on the lip of the neck  so i was wondering do they make a bolt like this with a thinner head?

[ebinmaine 68,401]

1 hour ago, TravelinJavelin said:

started turning stuff then noticed a binding well come to find out the heads of the bolts are to thick really so where it necks up on the shaft , now this the i think its called the 11/44 tooth gear the heads from the bull gear are just catching on the lip of the neck  so i was wondering do they make a bolt like this with a thinner head?

 

I'm not by any means claiming to be an expert on these Transmissions

 

Did you double and triple check to make sure that the bolts are going the correct direction?

 

If you need to change another gear or two, let me know.

The transmission that I pulled those out of had a broken case but was operationally perfect.

 

Steve was pretty awesome and helped me out a lot on the one I did for my honey's 657.

 

Perhaps @stevasaurus could weigh in here?

[TravelinJavelin 620]

yeah i couldn't even use those bolts they were too big for my differential so i had to use the old ones

[ebinmaine 68,401]

Can you swap in the diff I sent?

Or does it not fit in your trans?

 

[TravelinJavelin 620]

well the nuts and bolts are too big it would be the same prob 

Spoiler

 

 

[ebinmaine 68,401]

6 hours ago, TravelinJavelin said:

well the nuts and bolts are too big it would be the same prob 

  Hide contents

 

 

Ahhh.... 

I was thinking your differential may have been different than mine for some reason.

There are bolts available with thinner heads but it would be best to figure out WHY those are hitting first.

 

[TravelinJavelin 620]

the original bull gear for this tranny i think 1.5" wide vs 2"

[ebinmaine 68,401]

Hmmmmmmm......

I'll definitely let the transmission experts weigh in on this one. 

I'm curious to see what the ultimate solution is as well.

 

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

Can the heads of the bolts be ground down?

[ebinmaine 68,401]

7 minutes ago, The Tool Crib said:

Can the heads of the bolts be ground down?

They certainly could but it is more important to figure out why they are hitting.

There's either a wrong part in there or something out of adjustment or something worn too much.

[stevasaurus 22,869]

Brandon, excellent talking with you yesterday.    After looking at your pictures above, it sure looks like what we were talking about is correct.  ie...you have the 11/44 toothed gear from the #5058 bevel gear differential transmission...and a differential from an 8 speed transmission.  The 11 teeth from the mushroom gear should mesh with the bull gear no problem.  You are going to have to make what you have work because your brake drum attaches on the shaft of the 11/44 gear.  The 8 pinion differential transmissions use the cluster gear shaft for the brake drum.  They also use a two piece mushroom gear setup.

   All that being said, the 1st thing to check is that the bearing under the larger part of the mushroom gear is flush with it's retainer in the case.  The 2nd thing is to see if the bull gear teeth are hitting correctly on the width of the mushroom gear 11 teeth.  A little grinding on the right edge of the bull gear teeth may be in order.  The 3rd thing is the bolts holding the differential together.  Sounds like yours are the 5/16-18 variety. (some of the 8 speeds used 3/8-16's.  Since, your transmission is still a #5058, except for the differential, the bolts should enter the housing from the right side (input shaft side).  I know you can get bolts with thinner heads...or grind them down to stop the grinding.  Using the old bolts is not a problem, but you do want to use new Nyloc nuts.  There should only be about 2 threads showing past the nuts.  I would grind or hack saw them to length after tightening.  That should take care of everything.   Hope!!!    

[TravelinJavelin 620]

ok steve thank you yeah the ends of the bolts were torn a little too so i'll take my cut off tool and nip them a little......after i talked to you about binding well i wentback out and and put stuff back together again and this time worked great without any binding at all and like you said i think i had just enough slop it caused it to what it was doing but i think i'll just grind down on the bolts and go from there after that everything looks good and and will turn good i believe

[953 nut 55,822]

Just found this five year old post by @jeremi3210 where he installed a 8 pinion in a 953 case. Hope he will chime in here to provide more information.

 

I got lucky and found a 1054 trans with a busted diff. Took the axles out of that and cut a groove for a snap ring and put them in a 8 pinion. Shaved one side of the bull gear down to fit it in the 1054 case. Then i took the half of a 8 speed with the hi low gear drilled and taped so it fit the 953 frame and used the long side of the 1054 case. So now i got a 8 speed 8 pinion 953. It is one of my favorite tractors. Just got to get the rear lift figured out dont know how to run the cable.