953 transmission out again 3rd time lol

[TravelinJavelin 620]

well hopefully 3rd time the charm got gears from ebay and i hope its something simple locked into 2 and reverse i think and won't come back out.....i think what has happened is the 2 ball bearings and pin and spring assembly came undone inside and something got lodged or i believe anyways also when we opened it up before we painted it to change the casee gasket we noticed things that wern't going good like on the bull gear the four bolts well the heads were chewed up a bit and the pin and spring assembly with the 2 ball bearings well 1 was missing but the bevel gears themselves luckily looked in great shape so i have a friend of mine that has tinkered close to 45 years specializes in john deere and old fordson tractor stuff, but is doing firewood at the moment so i got to wait another month when he's done with that......so here it is pulled out so far........ couldn't help myself playing with the lights for a minute or too

Edited October 17, 2018 by TravelinJavelin

[ebinmaine 68,400]

Hey mister man.

Good to see you working on this rig.

I'll be following along with the progress.

[TravelinJavelin 620]

oh yeah i've got the parts off from ebay right now while i got it out though i'd like to find a tranny or pics of the bolt pattern from a 1257 or 1057 to compare and maybe something 953 nut did? its funny most other tractors i wouldn't go through this much heart ache but this is the first one i don't have a twitching of ever selling lol ......it would take a crazy offer to get out my hands now lol

[stevasaurus 22,869]

Your problem is most likely the shift rails and the suction they create when shifting fast or on the fly.  The suction will pull back one fork while you slip into the other...thus causing you to be in 2 gears at the same time.  Quick solution...pull out shifter and use a screwdriver to shift forks back into neutral...replace shifter and do not speed shift anymore.  Total fix is to grind a flat on the shift rail or buy a couple of newer shift rails that already have been ground down.  

 

 

 

As far as the carriage bolts...you should be building the trans in the shallow side (input shaft side) of the case...the bolts should be up through the differential with the nuts on the top (or up)...you should be looking at the nuts.  

[TravelinJavelin 620]

ok thank you i knew there was a sequence just couldn't remember and i'll stop the speed shifting lol........................your to funny nut

[TravelinJavelin 620]

woops steveasaurus i was think you were 953 nut i'll pay attention now

[TravelinJavelin 620]

33 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

Your problem is most likely the shift rails and the suction they create when shifting fast or on the fly.  The suction will pull back one fork while you slip into the other...thus causing you to be in 2 gears at the same time.  Quick solution...pull out shifter and use a screwdriver to shift forks back into neutral...replace shifter and do not speed shift anymore.  Total fix is to grind a flat on the shift rail or buy a couple of newer shift rails that already have been ground down.   ok steve sorry for a stupid question where does one grind on the rail?

 

 

 

As far as the carriage bolts...you should be building the trans in the shallow side (input shaft side) of the case...the bolts should be up through the differential with the nuts on the top (or up)...you should be looking at the nuts.  

 

[TravelinJavelin 620]

hey steve also before it locked i noticed that the shifter had a tendency to pop out of gear and had nothing to hold in place that felt like it would stay in gear if yuo know what i mean

[stevasaurus 22,869]

Now that could very well be that the detente ball set up is not right.  You might be missing one of the balls and you may now have a messed up spring.    Pull the shifter first and see if that unlocks your gears...now that you would be in neutral, use a screwdriver to shift one of the shift rails into gear and then back and try the other...you should know what it should feel like if the detente balls were correct.  

[TravelinJavelin 620]

i'm pretty sure this is most of my problem when we put the tranny back in it shifted very smooth.....no binding what so ever rode it around all afternoon thought we had it licked then took it to the tractor show and shifting it i could feel something quite not right with her and something told me get her back to thetruck before a embarrasing moment happens and just as i got back to the truck it locked up for the first time then got unlocked drove in the truck then did it again and thank you ebin for the extra ramps i got it up there and left in there then got it home took it out next day got it unlocked again and now i noticed especially in third wouldn't stay in gear and worse if you were going down hill then got it in the garage where it locked one more time and that was it.......the one thing i can say that the bevel gears looked really good when we had it apart and used 90wt oil for fluid

[ebinmaine 68,400]

You're welcome man.

That's what we're here for.

I'm kind of leaning towards @stevasaurus idea about the shift Forks being worn or more likely, the detent ball and spring situation not being quite right.

 

I don't know if it helps your situation at all but I have 2 8 speeds and a 4 speed down here in Hiram that you're welcome to disassemble to poke around in.

[TravelinJavelin 620]

any of the 8 speeds 1 1/8th axles?

[ebinmaine 68,400]

21 minutes ago, TravelinJavelin said:

any of the 8 speeds 1 1/8th axles?

Yeah both should be.

One is out on the bench already.

[TravelinJavelin 620]

trade that tank for it ?

 

[ebinmaine 68,400]

Can't trade/the transmissions... They have future homes in Tractors.

 

But if it would help you to see it apart you'd be welcome to run down here or I could snap some pics.

Maybe Sunday.

Steve has some great videos too.

 

[TravelinJavelin 620]

just need to know axle sizes i guess if its 1' or 1 1/8th

[953 nut 55,818]

Your axles are 1 1/8".

[TravelinJavelin 620]

thanks nut i thought they were but ohh been doing other stuff for a while and trying to get back to this 

[Racinbob 11,232]

The problem is almost certainly with the shift rails. The suction issue as Steve said was a problem that Wheel Horse came out with a service bulletin instructing people to use 40wt in hopes to minimize it. Shortly after that they added the flat. Their next step was to make the center neutral detent deeper and use a 3/4" stop pin in lieu of the 11/16". This forced one of the rails to be in the neutral position at all times. The first revised rail was like the one on the left here:

 

 

Then they made the detents go all the way around like this:

 

 

That was done for manufacturing purposes as the rails don't rotate at all. You could find a set of newer rails. They all interchange. The spring and balls are the same. Only the stop pin is different. They can be used in any combination with the 11/16" pin but the 3/4" pin requires the newer rails.  

 

[TravelinJavelin 620]

stupid question the 3/4" stop pin the same length as the 11/16" and will i have to get a bigger diameter spring for 3/4" pin?

[Racinbob 11,232]

You use the same spring. The idea is that the extra 1/16" in the stop pin length requires one of the balls to be in the deeper neutral detent. 

[TravelinJavelin 620]

ok so if i grind the middle slot down i'd take off a 1/16" then correct and middle one only or to both forks? i might end up doing this job myself just becuase we ended up with a half inch of snow last night

[TravelinJavelin 620]

now also i meant to add to this but another idicator someone had been into this tranny to was on the axles these were roll pin held together and was suprised to see there C clips in its place and if i remember correctly cut the slot directly over the center of the hole where the roll pin goes into

[stevasaurus 22,869]

Reading what you say happened, I am positive you are missing at least 1 detente ball.  The trans shifted OK at first, with just the spring reaching into the groove of a shift rail.  Then the spring, either got bent or snapped off enough to have nothing reach into a groove.  Without that resistance, the shift rail could move around just from vibration and lock up your trans.  That one detente ball is also still in your trans someplace.  I would guess it is in the hole underneath one of the shift rails...which would keep the shift rail from being fully engaged in gear.  You are going to have to drop and open your trans to fix the problem.  The detente balls are just 1/4" ball bearings...ACE, TSC have these.  The stop should be fine.  I think the spring is still available from TORO.  This video shows putting the detente parts together.  

 

[TravelinJavelin 620]

yeah i've been watching your vids for hours trying to grasp got to get my garage set up to it just my concern is with the axles wit the C clip in the roll pins in its place is that a good thing or bad thing?