1975 C-160 PTO Safety Switch/Issue!

[boovuc 1,090]

I have a four or five wire connector PTO safety Switch on this 1975 C-160 I'm bringing back to life for a friend. The previous user of this machine had removed the PTO lever and must have replaced the PTO switch at one time. However.............the switch he, at one time, installed does not play with the PTO lever. His switch is a round push-button switch that will not work with the lever. No way! No how! (The PTO lever was removed from the machine and was in a box with other parts he didn't know how to put back together when the machine was delivered to me by his Bro-In-Law)!

I think this machine needs an inclined lever. One that the PTO lever will slide up or down on pushing in or releasing the switch as the lever is moved. This is yet another screw up the previous user did to it while "trying to fix it"! 

Does anyone have or can lay eyes on their 1975 16 horse Wheel Horse to confirm what I think I need? If someone has one of the PTO incline Safety Switches that match up to the multi-wire connector, please give me a PM here. I need to get this thing put back together for him soon. The next thing would be how to bypass this multi-wire connector so I can give him a working PTO if I can't get a working switch.

For the record:  I can hold the PTO switch in with my finger and push in the clutch and the machine starts and runs fine. I just need to get this PTO lever operational again and I would like the safety switch to work but will negate it if I have to.

 

Thanks!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

I believe your pto switch is 104680. Click on the picture and again on the pictures that come up next. There is also a picture of the wire connector. All are labeled.

Will see what I can find on the pto lever.

 

Garry

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

It appears 1975 was the year they started to use the multi-wire switch and likely late in the model year. The ball switch 101845 is also in the parts list and will guess this is how the PO ended up with one.

 

[boovuc 1,090]

I'm confused but not surprised. 

The button switch, 104680 can't work. I believe that is what's on it now. If I install the PTO lever in the disconnected, (back), position,  when pushed forward to engage the PTO, the button pops out and obstructs the PTO lever from being pulled all the way back.

(The Lever links are flush to the switch). It can't work.

I need the ball switch but it has to be for that multi-wired connector. The opening for the switch is a round hole and won't accept anything but the button or ball switches. I forgot about the ball switches! Only the ball switch will work with this PTO lever. The 101845 switch is only a two wire connector. I wonder if this #%$*!& previous user bought a wrong PTO lever for the machine.

I need a favor................................can someone or a couple look at their PTO levers and switches and tell me what you have? Especially a 1975 model! I may just need the correct PTO lever and hardware to work with the BUTTON PTO Switch.

 

Thanks in Advance!

 

[BOB ELLISON 2,981]

This is my 74 but the 75 should be the same. There is only 2 wires to this switch. 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

Would this arrangement match what you have? The pto switch #16 mounts with the terminals facing up. On the bracket that mounts the switch there is also a piece of spring steel #18. When the pto handle is pulled to the off position the outer tab on the pto lever/shaft contacts the spring steel and pushes it up which pushes the button on the switch above the spring.

The second tab on the pto lever is farther inboard and it is a stop to prevent the pto lever from going too far.

 

Here is the page I'm looking at

https://www.partstree.com/parts/toro/mowers-lawn-garden-tractor/01-16kh01-sk-486-toro-sk-486-8-speed-garden-tractor-1982/electrical-system-sk-486/

 

Garry

[boovuc 1,090]

Hi Bob,

 

Mine isn't a two wire unfortunately.

 

GARRY!!!!!!!!!!

 

I think you hit it! The idiot that used it before my friend got it from him to save must have taken it a part like he does everything else to try to fix it and.....................he lost the parts. They are not in the bag of crap he gave his brother in law!

I need #8, 9, 10, 18, 19, 51 to make it work as it should or I 'll have to bypass it and I don't really want to do that.

This makes sense now based on your post and the fact this jerk takes things a part and doesn't know what he's doing. (Stories told to me and what I have seen with this tractor).

I'm probably screwed. I did see #8 on flea-bay. The bolts/washers and nuts are not an issue. The spring steel part may be.

 

Thanks, Garry! I really appreciate the effort!

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

I will bet a piece of that blue steel strapping for binding products to pallets would work for #18 if you can drill a hole in it.

Will keep looking to see if there are older parts for your 1975 vintage as they may be different than these 1980-1982 parts but sounds like the concept is the same.

#51 is likely just a piece of flat stock.

The 1980-82 models used a wider hoodstand so that alone tells me the 1975 parts will be different.

I have drilled stainless steel hose clamp straps so that may also replace #18.

 

Garry

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

See if this makes more sense.

https://www.partstree.com/parts/toro/mowers-lawn-garden-tractor/61-16ks01-c-160-toro-c-160-automatic-tractor-1976/11-000-electrical-system/

11-40 and 11-41 are all that is shown in the 1975 parts list but they have now added the nuts and washers.

11-41 is still available from Toro also and mostly likely spring steel.

Is this tractor a hydro model? Don't know why both switch styles are shown.

 

Garry

[boovuc 1,090]

Hi Garry,

 

This is an 8-Speed tractor. I'm not sure either but it may be due to the sale of WheelHorse to AMC less than a year before. These sales tend to shake up inventories and like my old Harley Sportster from the same era, it had all kinds of different parts from different suppliers on it.

This tractor has a 1974 Kohler on it which isn't unusual but there are other things that make no sense. Too bad the jerk that had it after the father's death just took crap off and threw things on it or in this case, took things a part and never put them back on it only to be lost due to complete disorganization.

I'm going to look at two older C-Series in these parts in the coming daze and see what is on them. I have infinite spring steel from banding available at work. The switch that is on it, (that is newer), does work as it requires me to hold it in with my finger to start the tractor and once started, it can be released and continues to run. (The clutch switch works and the seat switch is bypassed).

 

Thanks for the info Garry!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

Appears 1975 and 1976 used the 104680 switch with a 104681 U-shaped spring to control the switch button outside the hoodstand.

In 1977 they used a ball switch with just 2 wires.

In 1978 they went with a wider hoodstand and used the same 104680 switch but with a 105873 flat spring inside the hoodstand.

 

Garry

[boovuc 1,090]

Wow! That's some great detective work, Garry. I'm going to secure some banding steel from some of our banded incoming raw material drums later this week or when things settle down some. I'll see what I can come up with to make this functional. It is on the outside of the tractor so I have to be somewhat discreet on it's appearance since I can't come up with any parts as a direct replacement for those that were lost.

I sure do appreciate the time you gave me in solving this issue. And to everyone for their help on this "project".

I'm sure I'll find more things rigged or missing as I progress. Hopefully none that will require more posts! 

I'll get pictures up on the final outcome when its all said and done. 

 

Best Regards,

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

Found another variation of the flat spring over the switch button but a little puzzling. It is for the 1976 B-60 which should be recoil start and magneto ignition. Don't see the need for this switch but without an original parts list or wiring diagram hard to know what was happening. The ipl may be shared with the B-80 which would have battery ignition. No part number for the 11-41 spring tab listed.

Does anyone have a copy of either?

 

Garry

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

Found another slightly different application using same 104680 switch and 104681 U-shaped spring tab. 1978 D-200 Automatic with manual clutch.

 

Garry

[boovuc 1,090]

Wow. Looks like they were using up some things they had in their inventories. We didn't receive anything last week with metal banding so I couldn't fabricate anything to try to make what i have work. (Damn plastic banding)! 

Next shipment of some of our raw materials should yield me some metal that will work!

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

On 10/17/2018 at 7:46 PM, gwest_ca said:

It appears 1975 was the year they started to use the multi-wire switch and likely late in the model year. The ball switch 101845 is also in the parts list and will guess this is how the PO ended up with one.

 

I am now quite sure this was not used for the pto. It was for the clutch (gear) or neutral (hydro) switch only but the on-line parts lists do not make that distinction. Just named a clutch switch and it is likely identical to the later ball switch except the later one used a slide-on connector with Packard terminals.

 

Garry

[ebinmaine 68,191]

@boovuc

Did you get the parts you need yet?

I have a 1975 c100 8 speed outside.

it's going to be a rebuilding project for me. I can take a look at that if it would help you.

I also have a 1978 C 81 but I know it doesn't have a PTO switch on it. I already took it out. I may still have a harness plug though.