What Size Lathe to Buy? What do You have?

[oliver2-44 9,674]

I've been thinking/wishing for a lathe for a long time. So as I get close to retirement I'm thinking its now or never. 

I had 2 years of machinist training after high school, but then went on to college and have been a paper designer & pusher ever since . 

I've worked with machinist doing work on my jobs for years. But haven't actually run a lathe in 40 years.    

 

I realize lathe size is dictated by what I want to do with it. So I'm going to say stick with garden tractor size work, or maybe a few small things for my larger tractor equipment.

I know lathe size is measured by distance (radius) over the cross slide and the length of the bed.  so a 6 x 3o would turn a 12" diameter part over the cross slide, and a bigger piece in front of the cross slide

I use the 12" as it seems it might be nice to cut some wheel weights out of scrap (as they sure have gotten expensive)

But looking at used lathe cost, there sure seems to be a price jump from 4" radius to 6" radius. A bed length over 30 inches also seems to be a price jump.  

I would prefer to stay away from lathes that require using "change gears" to cut threads or change speeds.

Accuracy/Precision is important $$, but I don't see myself doing anything like gun barrel machining.  I also know a good experienced machinist can compensate for a little wear in a lathe bed or a little slack in a cross slide.   

 

Does anyone have any experience with the combo lathe/mills.  I've hear a few comments that there usually are a good lathe but suffer in the mill category due to having a longer spindle hanging down, and its not ridged enough, so you have to take "lighter" cuts.  

 

Are there any brand/type of lathes you recommend staying away from?

I've read some of the new smaller import lathes, like: Jet, Grizzly, etc can have some plastic gears.  This sounds like a bad idea to me. what else do I need to look out for?

 

Thanks in advance for your comments.

 

@Sarge 

@Machineguy

@Machinist J

@buckrancher 

@WVHillbilly520H

@buckrancher

@McGrew

@Howie

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by oliver2-44

[Machineguy 876]

I can  get some good feedback from a close friend on small lathes. He’s a machine service/repair technician that travels throughout the mid-Atlantic states. He deals with various applications from Mom and Pop type shop work to full on heavy production shops. Sounds like a tool room sized lathe would suite you fine. Let me get the down low on what to avoid. I mainly deal with large manual and Cnc Mills. I’m many years removed from the smaller tooling nowadays so not sure what’s a good deal. 

[C-101plowerpower 1,605]

i've currently got two lathes, one cheapo chinese thingy with no brand name, that one is ok ish for small work. the other one i have is a bigger and way older machine.

a english made Smart & Brown model M mk1 from just after the war, got it basicly for free(did some work for my mate where i got it from)  so far its not in operating condition yet as we are still restoring it

 

[Kurt-NEPA 755]

You always have to balance need, cost and space.  For me I went with a 10" Clausing.  I have about $1700 in it and so far its been big enough for everything I want it for.  Would I like bigger, sure, but where will I put it.  I think 9 to 12" swing is just about right for a home shop.

 

[Machineguy 876]

25 minutes ago, Kurt-NEPA said:

You always have to balance need, cost and space.  For me I went with a 10" Clausing.  I have about $1700 in it and so far its been big enough for everything I want it for.  Would I like bigger, sure, but where will I put it.  I think 9 to 12" swing is just about right for a home shop.

 

Well said. My friend expressed the same thing to me about lathes. He suggested a Select brand if you wanted new or a used TOS or Cholchester would be safe. It’s all about cost and options. 

[Anglo Traction 761]

No previous experience or training. Had to learn from books and could only afford an old used machine initially just over 30 years ago. Also stuffed for size/space, so I settled for a  small 1949 English Myford 3 1/2" x 20". It's tired, but renewed many parts and has produced a lot of precision parts for my Tractors and Models etc. I wish I had space for a bigger one, but happy with what this can handle. Will swing 7" over the bed ways and 10" in the gap-

 

Machining the faces of a reduction gear unit held in a 6" 4 jaw chuck- 

 

I also have a secondhand hobby sized Milling Machine which is also a bonus in versatility. 

Whatever you decide on, it will open a whole new world of opportunity to make stuff. Enjoy!.

  

 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

I'm really leaning towards a "3 in 1" myself mainly for a couple reasons size/space utilization, electricity needs and cost, with that being said another member (can't remember at the moment) on here replied to my thinking out loud on this very subject about buying a new SmithyBilt brand "Granite" saying that he uses them in a shop setting and they are reliable machines now, Jeff.

[56servi 28]

I have a Smithy Granite I bought used 10 years ago.  It takes some time to switch between lathe, & mill but I don't get paid to work in the garage so its not a problem.  I also live about 30 miles from the store in Ann Arbor Mi so I can go there if I have any problems.

It isn't a tool room lathe but great for the garage and gets the job done.

 

[JAinVA 4,619]

The 10" Clausing is  a good choice.Nice score by the way.I have a 10" South Bend tool room lathe in the shop and it is enough for 90  percent of my projects.Greater capacity is always a plus but space can be an issue.Stay away from any machine using change gears.Luck JAinVA

Edited July 21, 2018 by JAinVA

[Sarge 3,463]

A few things to watch out for -

Stay clear of lathes that will only use collets, or only has a threaded snout, like my Enco 110-...makes it far tougher to source common chucks. Instead, look for machines either converted or designed for the D-1 type cam locks.

Older model US or otherwise lathes are great, but wear is a real problem and rebuilding one is no small task, not to mention very expensive.

Money well spent on a quality machine that is like new or gently used is your best investment - putting cost ahead of quality will yield a lot more headaches than the machine is worth. Be highly suspect of "rebuilt" machines - most are lipstick on a pig at best.

3 in 1 machines are not designed to be friendly on any front whatsoever to use one in the real world - on top of that, they are very limited in capability. You are far better off having a separate machine for milling, period. Rigidity is everything, without it you're wasting your time. I have 2 friends that have those machines and one is in the higher cost bracket - they both come here to use my worn out Enco and use other people's mills instead, wasting money/time.

A decent lathe in the 10" or larger category with a 40" bed length will suit anything you could possibly need in our hobby, smaller than 10" is going to create problems.

 

3ph machines are the best choice - only if you have 3 phase power. If you don't, and most don't at home - figure that cost of either changing the motor or using a variable frequency drive, which requires a lot of research. VFD's are a limiting factor - you'll lose at least 35% of the rated horsepower of the motor and that can be a problem. Some motors will not tolerate the heat generated when running them at lower RPMs, they are not designed to cool well below their build parameters. Dedicated motors to run with VFD's are quite expensive, as well as conversions to high amperage DC motors - again, a lot of research is required. Due to how lathes are designed with their remote switches and safety cutout switch - it is no easy task to re-wire a lathe for a single phase motor if it was built for 3 phase power. My Enco was designed to run on either 3ph or 1ph power, that is rare although newer machines are built this way.

 

I feel like machines of this type are very much like an air compressor or welder. Buy the best you can afford now, or end up replacing it later as you grow in your work. I wasted my time/money on 2 different small hobby lathes - then really made the mistake of buying a pretty worn out Taiwan build Enco. If I had to do it again, I'd have a Clausing, LeBlond, or similar. Buy it once, or risk buying it twice....

 

Sarge

[oliver2-44 9,674]

Last night a SouthBend Heavy 10 posted on CL someone selling off grampa's farm shop equipment.  Reported to have a 24" bed and 10" dia turn.  He;s out of town until Monday, but is sending me better pictures.  i've read good things about these machines. But I've also read it's hard to distinguish between the SouthBend 10 and the sought after "Heavy" 10.  it's actually nice that he's not available till Monday, as that give me time to so some research.  part of me says I would like a longer bed, but this would actually fit in my shop space much better.

 

Any comments on this model are appreciated. 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

@Cvans maybe you can add more about the 3in1 machining centers...Here's the post I was referring to above...i still honestly believe if you are not taking 1/8" deep cuts at 15+IPM surface speed the mill will do what we need to do for ourselves but when time is money well yes find a 24" Bridgeport and 10-12" lathe and "hog" on the material all you want...at work I get paid by the hour not by the job so with that being said lighter cuts and slower surface speeds, gets the job done without wearing the machine out faster, Jeff.

Edited July 21, 2018 by WVHillbilly520H

[Cvans 1,009]

  I enjoy working on the lathe or mill so Hogging metal isn't necessary. One update that I can strongly advise is converting the tool holder to a Phase II. Had to make an adapter but it was easy to do and has worked out well. 

  If you purchase one of these plan on spending at least a day cleaning, setting it up and making adjustments. Mine had been used for one small project before I purchased it and had spent years setting in a garage. Many of the boxes and tooling had never been opened. Most of the exposed metal surfaces had minor surface corrosion and needed attention. This was an early model and the motors were junk. The new motor is great and has far more torque than the original. I did make a simple sheet metal chip shield to put over the motor to keep material out of it. 

Milling with it is easy and to switch to milling takes very little time. Remove the chuck and tool holder then install the vice. Swing the mill over the vice and lock it and your set. The cam lock chuck is a neat feature.

  I have never quite figured out the down feed to the point that I'm completely comfortable with it. Milling key ways has not been a problem and all have turned out nicely. My experience with surface milling is limited and have only used the fly cutter once. 

   I believe there is two different power options available for the Smithy Granite now. Mine is the 110v which works fine for what I'm doing. The variable speed is nice. 

While I have been into metal fabrication most of my life I am only a shade tree machinist. If you have any questions about the Smithy feel free to ask and I will try to help. Also from my experience the people at Smithy have been very good to work with. 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

@Cvans, many thanks to you for your input/opinion on this particular machining center, I see that they are both 110/220 volt selectable anything above would require 3 phase or a "phase converter", BTW I'm not formally trained either all OTJ.

[Kurt-NEPA 755]

1 hour ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

@Cvans, many thanks to you for your input/opinion on this particular machining center, I see that they are both 110/220 volt selectable anything above would require 3 phase or a "phase converter", BTW I'm not formally trained either all OTJ.

Or if its three phase, you can run it off a VFD.  That is what I am doing on my Clausing.  Adds variable speed too.  Works well, but you can only run on one machine.  I have one on my Powermatic Drill Press.

[Kurt-NEPA 755]

4 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

Last night a SouthBend Heavy 10 posted on CL someone selling off grampa's farm shop equipment.  Reported to have a 24" bed and 10" dia turn.  He;s out of town until Monday, but is sending me better pictures.  i've read good things about these machines. But I've also read it's hard to distinguish between the SouthBend 10 and the sought after "Heavy" 10.  it's actually nice that he's not available till Monday, as that give me time to so some research.  part of me says I would like a longer bed, but this would actually fit in my shop space much better.

 

Any comments on this model are appreciated. 

 

A South Bend Heavy 10 is a really nice old school lathe.  Well sought after by SBL fans.  I wouldn't hesitate to get one.  I have a South Bend 9" Model A.  Its a bench top lathe and is very similar to 10K lathe.  It works very well for home shop use.  Either way, I would consider them.

[Cvans 1,009]

Just from my experience the swing is more important than bed length. These have a 13" swing which has come in handy several times. I was able to bore out a 300cc cylinder on it. Turned the cylinder on the lathe and used a 1" boring bar in the tool holder. That was several years ago and that 4 wheeler is still going. The mill didn't have enough vertical stroke to accommodate the cylinder.  At least I wasn't smart enough to figure out how to do it. 

[Uncle Buck 246]

On ‎7‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 12:13 PM, Kurt-NEPA said:

You always have to balance need, cost and space.  For me I went with a 10" Clausing.  I have about $1700 in it and so far its been big enough for everything I want it for.  Would I like bigger, sure, but where will I put it.  I think 9 to 12" swing is just about right for a home shop.

 

That thing is a real honey!

[Uncle Buck 246]

On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 12:57 PM, Kurt-NEPA said:

 

A South Bend Heavy 10 is a really nice old school lathe.  Well sought after by SBL fans.  I wouldn't hesitate to get one.  I have a South Bend 9" Model A.  Its a bench top lathe and is very similar to 10K lathe.  It works very well for home shop use.  Either way, I would consider them.

I agree with this, great quality, you can always find parts too. Hopefully you will find one that is not just totally beat though. A SB Heavy 10 would be high on my wish list though for sure.

[oliver2-44 9,674]

Well the guy with the South Bend jacked the price up after he saw one on EBay for a lont more (that ahqd bee restored  with lots of tooling.) Him lathe with the increased price is still on CL 3-1/2 weeks later. I'm still thinking about that lathe, but just not sure I want to deal with some one that jacks the price up after the first phone call.  

[Keith 21]

Did you find a lathe?   I don't see many good deals in the Austin area.  The machine tools that seem good are often sold within hours.  A trip to Dallas or Houston is probably worth the effort.

Any working lathe is better than none at all.  I got a Southbend 9-inch benchtop lathe for $600.  It was dirty but not in bad shape.   Lots of projects can be done with a 9 x 20 Asian lathe.  Make a habit of

checking the local scrap yards as machines which don't sell at auction can end up there.  I saw a Southbend Turnado at the scrap yard that looked  to be in good shape,  but I didn't have room for it as

the bed was pretty long and it had 5 HP 3 phase motor. 

 

Tim

[bc.gold 3,403]

Chinese metal laths have such poor castings that on close inspection you'll find LARGE imperfections filled in with body filler before their painted. Taiwan used to export some decent lathes and mills.

 

I sold my offshore lathe and wpuld never purchase another, a thirty year or older English or American would be money well spent.

[oliver2-44 9,674]

Still looking @Keith.  Yes the Austin & San Antonio market are hard to find good used machine tools.  I've been looking Dallas & Houston direction and it still seems $3000 is the starting point.  I'm beginning to lean towards a used Smithy Granite.  Seems there available for $3K+ fairly often.  if you come across anything send me a PM.  A lathe with a 10-12"swing and 36" bed would be my ideal lathe. 

[Keith 21]

A couple years ago a good condition Southbend 24-inch lathe sold locally for $1,500.  It was a factory modified 16-inch swing with 8-inch riser

blocks.  The bed length wasn't huge so that it would have been ideal for me, but I was #2 in line and it was heavy to move without help.   The seller

sold it cheap because he had to be out of the space by the weekend.   If you haven't done so, register with a service that provides alerts from Craigslist

and always be ready to pick up the lathe - have  trailer, hoists and rigging so you can move on it.  You probably won't regret overspending somewhat 

on a good lathe - not that I take my own advice !  I'm cheap. 

 

Tim

[oliver2-44 9,674]

Well, an Atlas 10" swing, 36" center to center Model QC-54 (54" bed length) came up on my Craigslist Alert and I was the first caller. Thanks for suggesting the Alert feature @Keith.  For once, it's in the next town 12 miles away, so I'm going to look at it as soon as he's home tomorrow afternoon. I've read many pro's and con's about the Atlas and there Sears Craftsman cousin. The Model QC has the quick change gearbox and if i read correctly was made from 1954 to 1981 and has Timken Bearings in the headstock verses babbit bearing in the smaller Atlas/Craftsman ones. He's asking $1200 which seems very reasonable considering what I've been watching for the last 6 months.  There was a Craftsman 12" for $2,500 that I though was way over priced. I called just in case it had a lot of tooling, mic's etc.  It had sold and was a bare lathe with 2 chucks.   If this one is in good shape it, It seems it should make a good beginner lathe for me and probable do all I ever want it to.  I had also been looking at the used Smithy Granite 3 in 1 machines but i haven't seen a used one listed around here for less than 5k.   

 

If anyone has any experience with the Atlas, good or bad, I'm all ears.  I read on web site that Clausing still supports "most" of the parts for these old lathe.  I've emailed them to check on this particular model.  

 

P.S. My wife has approved me finding a lathe, so that's one less challenge.