416-H hyd/trans line leak

[Redline69 27]

Howdy, 

 I have a 416-H w/hyd lift. Eaton 1100 hyd/trans. Just noticed some oil on the floor under the hyd/trans of the unit recently. The oil level was a little low and it was due for an oil/filter change anyway, so I dropped the oil and filter,and jacked up the pumpkin and removed the right rear wheel to have a look-see. There is an 90 degree fitting coming out from behind/under the cooling fan, and the hyd line carries up to the front to another hyd elbow. The leak is at the lower line nut. I tried tightening, still leaked. Found a new elbow in my inventory,and put some Teflon tape JUST on the threads, figured I try it even though I know it's a probably a JIC fitting and nut... somewhat better, but still a drip. So would that steel line still be available as a replacement? or am I looking at getting a hydraulic hose made in the future. Thanks in Advance.

[Redline69 27]

No one else had this problem? I'd appreciate any comments. Thanks.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,101]

Is it on this illustration? Item # 24

https://www.partstree.com/parts/toro/mowers-lawn-garden-tractor/41-16oe01-416-h-toro-416-h-garden-tractor-1990/hydrostatic-transmission-312-h-416-h/

 

Garry

[Redline69 27]

Yes Garry, I'm pretty sure it is. As I said, it's leaking from the bottom. Any idea what would be causing it?

 

 Thanks.

 Frank 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Redline69

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,101]

I have very little hydraulic experience.

You need to determine if it is the line to fitting connection or the fitting to pump connection that is leaking.

Should not be too hard to do if it is a suction line as described meaning there should not be any pressure in it. You should not have to have it running to leak so with the pulley off you can inspect it.

Being a suction line it should not leak oil out while running but would allow air to be drawn into the oil. Air bubbles in the oil is one cause of pump whine.

Have seen flared lines crack between the flare and the round tube from vibration.

If the flare has a bad surface good hydraulic shops have a soft copper washer tapered to fit the flare that can be added as a gasket like on the oil pan drain bolts on autos.

 

A slight leak is hard to see. If the area is super clean you could try spraying the spot with a quick drying flat black paint which most is now days. The leak will either wash the paint off or show up as shiney depending on the severity of the leak.

Back in the day we used a dye added to the oil that could be detected using a black light but that is specialized and costly.

A cheaper alternative was a talcum powder in a quick drying solvent that came in a aerosol can. That left a flat white surface that the leak would wash off.

Finding a slight leak is like watching paint dry.

Good luck.

 

Garry

[Redline69 27]

Lots of good info there Garry.

 

As I said, I replaced the 90 degree fitting coming out of the bottom of the unit, and goes to the line, still leaked.

 

I'm not sure whether that line is a suction or a return, anyone else know what it would be?

 

I did also recently replace the trans oil with some Lucas 10-30 synthetic, that shouldn't have any effect, would it? The drip seems to have gotten worse with the new oil. Maybe that's just coincidence.

 

 I will pull the 416 in ASAP,and try and get a closer look.

I know taking that line off won't be easy, as there is other parts pushed up against it.

 

Your help is much appreciated.

[cleat 6,362]

Where the elbow screws into the pump there is an 'O' ring to seal it.

 

Make sure that ring is present and in good shape.

 

The connection between the elbow and metal line is a flare so no 'O' ring there.

 

No sealing tape is to be used at either location.

 

This is pressure from the pump, the return goes through the filter.

 

Cleat

Edited August 25, 2018 by cleat

[Redline69 27]

Thanks for that additional info Cleat. Will check back after I tear into it, and see what I can find.

 

[Redline69 27]

OK, re-assessment. 

 The line comes out under the input pulley/fan on the hyd pump. Looks like it snakes it's way to the front, and into the hyd deck lift valve. Part #107-9295 (replaces 110504).  This looks like a 3/8" steel line.

It is leaking behind the nut.

 Looks like a helluva job removing this line. 

 Garry, you mention a flared copper washer fix that might fit in the line, that would crush down and possibly seal the leak. Monday, I'm going to call around and see if I can find something like this. 

 

 Would this be the type of washer I'm looking for?

 https://fasparts.com/store/sae45-59-6.html

 

If this doesn't work I might just plug the port,and keep the deck down for now til I can find the time to do a tear down and fix it this winter.

 

 Edit..

 This steel line could be cut out and replaced with the properly made hydraulic hose, could it not?

 Or, cut off the offending end,and put a new piece in and connect them with compression fitting splice.

 Either of these methods would save me a ton of tear down and rebuild.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Redline69

[cleat 6,362]

Don't plug this port.

That will dead head the pump.

You will need to run a hose from that port over to the filter inlet where the other metal line connects to it.

 

The early models used rubber hoses.

 

I have some used ones, they are also on ebay or you can get one made.

 

The metal lines do come out, just a little tricky.

 

You can use a quality swagelok connector to join the tubing, it runs around 600 PSI max I believe.

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by cleat

[Redline69 27]

OK, point taken on not plugging the port. I won't go there. I don't need to make things worse..

 

Any clues on how to get this steel line out? just getting to the line nut on the control valve looks like a struggle. Once I get that off, I suppose there might be some room to get it pulled forward,and once the rear of the line clears, get it down and out..(easier said than done).

 

Thanks for the offer on the lines, If I decide to get one made, I'll just run up to the NAPA,as they have a pretty extensive line and fitting selection. Thanks for the PSI rating, that will help with picking out the hose.

 

I might try a splice first,as that seems easier. The grass is growing like crazy here south of Rodney,and the old 318-8 still works good, but there is nothing like cutting the grass with a twin, get those revs up and let the cuttings fly. 

 You also have PM.

 Appreciate the help crew.

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Redline69

[cleat 6,362]

To get the line disconnected at the control valve end you may need to remove the front plate from under the battery (#9 in the enclosed PDF file) and of course the battery itself.

Front plate.pdf

 

After you get both ends disconnected, I think you just need to wiggle it out. I cannot give you a proper answer as I pull them during complete teardowns on my 520's.

 

If they have a single braid flexible hose, that will make your life easier. 

You will need 90 degree swivel ends on both ends

The fittings are O Ring Boss # 5 or 6 I think.

 

Take in the metal tube and both 90 degree adaptors to ensure hose gets made correctly and the correct length.

 

You do not use the adaptors with the hose, it just directly connects at both ends (at least that is how the factory does it).

This is what the hoses look like as per the parts manual.

Hydraulic.pdf

 

Cleat

 

[Redline69 27]

Thanks again Cleat!

 

[wheelhorseman 3,211]

If you need hoses I have replacement sets available for 520s pm me if interested 

[Redline69 27]

Appreciate the offer, will see how it goes here first.

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

On 8/27/2018 at 12:11 PM, wheelhorseman said:

If you need hoses I have replacement sets available for 520s pm me if interested 

Hey brother been reading this thread and you say you have a replacement lines for the 1100 eaten tranny.  I have this 520 H with 690 hours on it I'm working on but not sure where the leak is. Can get back with you . Thanx. The Tool Crib🗜

[Redline69 27]

OK, I got the machine fixed, but am finally getting around to getting the repair posted.

 Cleat gave me the best advice, which was to work by removing the panel below, but in front of the battery. I didn't have to fully take it out, but just get enough room to maneuver. 

Had a hose made up at the local NAPA. Added a picture of it.

 

We used 1/4" hydraulic hose rather than 3/8" for easier maneuvering. The ends are 3/8" JIC (37degree). We put a 45 degree on the end going to the lift valve. I'm glad I used 1/4" line because 3/8" line would've been a bear to get in through the opening going to the pump.

 

 Once I installed it and topped up the fluid, it worked like a charm.

 

 Here is the old 412-H sorta cleaned up. Just in her working clothes. 1760 hrs on it.

 

 Thanks for the help fellas.

 Frank 

[cleat 6,362]

Good looking tractor and also has the 48" deck.

 

Best deck out there.

 

Cleat

[Redline69 27]

Thanks Cleat. 

It's no 520, but still cuts like a knife with that deck!

[1995 520H+96+97 937]

Could you post a picture of the line, fitting that was leaking?

Was it cracked, the fitting or the line?

[Redline69 27]

Thought I posted it. There was a crack in the flare. Very fine, but a crack none the less.