3 speeders

[Phil Burley 4]

Hello , We have acquired  a Wheel Horse  Model  1-0394  It has been standing outside for about 10 years , the gearbox was full of water . We have cleaned the gears but the bearings were all shot . I understand the sxle  ball race are not available so I have replaced them with a phosphor bronze bush which I think will be OK . The problem now is how to replace the spring loaded ball bearings holding the selectors . The first one is easy but how to hold the second  ball down while sliding the plunger shaft in , Has any one done this   ????  Regards Phil

[953 nut 55,192]

This thread by @stevasaurus should answer your questions.   

 

[ebinmaine 67,432]

Phil...

I just recently took apart the first transmission I've ever done. It was a 4-speed very similar to your three.

As posted above, that thread will tell you pretty much everything you need to know.

It did take me a couple tries to get the ball and spring arrangement in there.

Once you get the hang of it... No worries.

 

If you need any other parts, @stevasaurus keeps a list of all the bearings and seals for transmissions. Others do as well.

 

[meadowfield 2,570]

I have done this by drilling out and putting a grub screw back in the hole. However I've just found a new way by grinding a small bevel on the end of the selector which pushes the ball in a treat!

[rmaynard 15,436]

FYI, the "no longer available" 1533 bearings are now available from our vendor @wheelhorseman. 

[Phil Burley 4]

thanks for the quick and helpful replies  I will let you know it goes , I have a couple of new balls  same size as originals and original spring but doesn't seem to do deep enough to push the second selector in , but no doubt we will master it , The drawing shows a pin in there  which we don't have , whats the purpose  of that ?

regards Phil

[ebinmaine 67,432]

The pin keeps the two forks from being able to engage at the same time.

It keeps the balls a certain distance apart thereby only one at a time can be in a groove on a shaft.

[Racinbob 11,050]

Pretty much what Eric said. The pin on yours will be 3/4" long. The center detent on the shift rails will be deeper than the outer detents. In order for the shift rail to be moved side to side one of the balls must be in the deeper center neutral detent. The detents on the older style shift rails were all the same depth and the stop pin was 11/16". The change came about back in the mid 60's.

[Pullstart 62,837]

Can the 3/4” pin be used in an older case, or were ther other changes to make that work?  @Racinbob , @stevasaurus, or anyone else in the know?

[Racinbob 11,050]

The 11/16" pin can be used in any of them. The 3/4" pin can only be used if the neutral detent is deeper. Ignore the fact that the detents go all the way around the rail. They also made them that look like the older style with the neutral groove being deeper. It likely was just a change in the manufacturing process when they switched to the detents that went all the way around. As I said, the 11/16" pin can be used with any rails but you'll defeat the purpose of them. The design is such that with the 3/4" pin one of the balls must be in a deeper detent before the rails can be moved. The idea is to prevent the shifter from locking up in two gears.

 

[Phil Burley 4]

I have managed to put the selectors in by grinding a small taper on the one  side . Now I know that the pin is 3/4 long I will make one

Thanks again for the help

regards Phil

[Racinbob 11,050]

You really shouldn't have to do that but it can't hurt. One thing I forgot to mention is that the first ball that you put in will be against the 3rd/2nd rail (the one to the rear). You need to make sure it's seated in the neutral detent or it will not push in far enough for the rail to clear the second ball.  I use a small allen wrench to push the second ball into the hole then push the 1st/rev rail in forcing the wrench to the side of the hole then just pull it out. The rail will be far enough to hold the ball captive. That being said I still have a few 1/4" balls that escaped scattered around the garage.

[953 nut 55,192]

A good dab of grease on the detente balls tends to help hold them in place too.

[Pullstart 62,837]

10 hours ago, Racinbob said:

The 11/16" pin can be used in any of them. The 3/4" pin can only be used if the neutral detent is deeper. Ignore the fact that the detents go all the way around the rail. They also made them that look like the older style with the neutral groove being deeper. It likely was just a change in the manufacturing process when they switched to the detents that went all the way around. As I said, the 11/16" pin can be used with any rails but you'll defeat the purpose of them. The design is such that with the 3/4" pin one of the balls must be in a deeper detent before the rails can be moved. The idea is to prevent the shifter from locking up in two gears.

 

Ya know, I think I used to know that now that I read this response!

[stevasaurus 22,717]

RacinBob has covered all of it.  I am not going to add to it and maybe confuse the issue. 

Question though...  1-0394 looks like a Belgium horse...what transmission do you think you have??  Is it an 8 speed? 

[Phil Burley 4]

hello , Yes it's a Belgium one , according to the plate,  chassis number 145141? last number we cant read , A 3 speed and reverse , similar to the one in the video , ours has a circlip on the axle shaft in the differential , the  one in the video has  a roll pin , Kohler engine  but cant find any numbers on that, have the head off , the valves very badly need a grind  when we tried to start it , it was puffing through the air intake , valve not seating I assume . Were they made in Belgium or just imported to there  ?

Regards Phil

[stevasaurus 22,717]

They were made in Belgium.  If your brake drum is on the cluster gear shaft, you have what is called a 4 speed...probably a #5080, #5084 or #5085.  The 3 speeds have the brake drum on the mushroom gear shaft...Like the #5025, etc.    We do have a list of the Belgium model numbers in the manual section...but I do not see your model number.  If I had to guess, I would say you have a 1975 B-80 4 speed with the #5084 transmission and a Kohler K-181 (8 hsp) engine.

 

 

[Phil Burley 4]

yes the brake drum is on the gear cluster

regards Phil

[stevasaurus 22,717]

Phil...try this thread (if you have not seen this)...this is your transmission. 

 

  This one has the videos. 

[meadowfield 2,570]

A bit slow here, missed the top of the thread...

 

 I have 1-0394 on my European list as either a Raider 10 4 speed - or a B-100. Being a Belgian model it was a Raider 10 monday-thursday, then on fridays they used B-100 decals  

 

I'm joking, but that's probably not far from the truth - in the UK there are lots of odd model numbers from Amnor

[stevasaurus 22,717]

Right Mark...it was a guess on my part using the US list as a guide.  Over here...all of the 10 hsp horses around the mid-70's have the 8 speed transmission.  The 8 hsp horses have the 4 speed.  Phil did not say what size engine he has...we could find out by counting the head bolts.    Here is the head bolt arrangement of the K-181   8hsp Kohler.

 

[Phil Burley 4]

Hello , the head on my Kohler  has 9 studs , It has no numbers anywhere , What HP does that make it ? We have got the gearbox together on the  bench , but *** seems to jump out of top gear unless you hold the gear lever over , is there any bodge we can do to improve that , it probably wont matter much because if we can get it running it will only be a bit of a toy to run round our paddock which is a bit hilly  so  low gear will  be in use I should think .

Regards Phil

[Racinbob 11,050]

That could be a 10, 12 or 14 HP.

Popping out of 3rd gear is caused by worn inner teeth on the 3523 gear. The input gear/shaft could also be worn some. You can get a 3523 from one of our vendors here.

 

https://wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/new-products.html#!/3523-3rd-gear/p/84932562

[stevasaurus 22,717]

Bob is correct...the block is the same for the 10, 12 and 14.  I would think Mark is right...10 hsp K-241-S with the 4 speed transmission if the engine is original. 

 

I'm confused...is it popping out of 3rd on the bench or did you put it back in the horse and it is popping out now...when you run it.??? 

[Phil Burley 4]

Hello , popping out of third gear with box on the bench and turning over the input shaft by hand

regards Phil

When we have the engine running ( it needs a valve grind badly , ) we can decide if its worth spending cash on . The engine is 2 ,3/4 bore  by 2 ,7/8 stroke , I make that about 24 cu inch , which HP is that ?

So glad we found this site , so useful , Phil in UK

Edited July 18, 2018 by Phil Burley
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