Advice Needed on 6 Speed Transaxle

[McGrew 460]

I will try the WHX20 method.   The arbors I used were some scrap 6061-T6 aluminum I had lying around.  I machined them slightly smaller than the OD of the seal and used them on the arbor press. This one was for the axle bearings, and the shoulder is .150" deep, allowing for the .125" thick seal.   This worked great on 2 of the 4 seals, and not so great on the other 2.  Guess I got lucky on the two that went in easily.  

[McGrew 460]

OK, guys, while I was waiting for my new seals to come in, I took a close look at the input shaft and  pulley.  The ID of the pulley  was not horrible,  but even with a new woodruff key, it was sloppier than I liked.  The .625" long  woodruff key had worn a groove in the center of the pulley hub.   So, I filled the missing part with JB Weld, and recut  the keyway.  I was really pleased with how it came out.  I filled the original woodruff key slot in the input shaft with JB Weld,  then machined it for a full length square 5/32" key.  The key slot in the shaft was in really good shape.   Now I know many of you are not a fan of JB Weld, but in this case, I feel it was a good option.  This new full length key has more contact area with the undamaged part of the hub than the design had when new.  Plus,  if the JB Weld adds any strength to the mix, I have more than twice the contact area... Let me know what you think.   

[WHX?? 49,172]

Nice work!

[ebinmaine 68,398]

1 minute ago, WHX20 said:

Nice work!

[McGrew 460]

New seals arrived yesterday, and I was almost afraid to attempt the installation, given my past experiences...  I said almost...  With the tiniest ball pein hammer I could find and some Mobil 1 lube, I got both installed without issue. 

 

Now, if my input spline bearings would arrive I will start putting her back together.   The bearing package arrived at my house several weeks ago minus the B-108 bearings.  I called the vendor, and it turns out USPS had torn the shipping bag  and lost those bearings...     I am still waiting for their replacements.... ARRRGGGHHH! 

[McGrew 460]

I made progress today!  I have been trying to work on this project for a couple weeks now, but life kept getting in the way...  I towed the WH from the basement to my garage to start the reassembly.  The tow bar I made worked great!  i used my other tractor (it is yellow) but didn’t want to tick off anyone with pics of a horse being towed by a Cub...The trans has been all buttoned up for weeks with all new bearings, seals and hubs, and the installation went smoothly.  I filled it with Mobil 1 synthetic and drove it around the yard.  Which brings up a question:  I read in several other threads, this trans should have a 1” extension on the filler?  I don’t use the filler, as my trans has a dipstick.  I am not sure if it ever had the extension on the lower part of the case?  So my question is how full should the trans be?   Should the level be above the full mark on the dipstick?  Right now the oil level is to the top of the full range on the dipstick, and it took  a couple ounces shy of 2 quarts to put it to that level.   

 

I want to thank everyone for their help and guidance in the rebuild of this trans.  I could not have done it without you!  And thank you to all the vendors who supplied parts:  A-Z Tractor, Wheel Horse Parts and More, and Bob Maynard.  Thank you!

[953 nut 55,818]

6 hours ago, McGrew said:

 I read in several other threads, this trans should have a 1” extension on the filler?  I don’t use the filler, as my trans has a dipstick.  I am not sure if it ever had the extension on the lower part of the case?

The 1" extension was on the early six speeds like the 1267. Once the dip stick came along there was no need for the extension and you are good to go.

[McGrew 460]

953, Thank you!  That clears up the question about the extension.  I read in another thread something about WH raising the level of the oil in the trans to better lubricate those 10 pinion differentials.  I have already replace one, and don’t want to do it again!  Do you think I should go by the oil level on the dipstick, or raise it slightly?  That brings up another question...  What are the failure modes for the 10 pinion LS diff?  Were broken carriers (rings) a common failure?  Thanks again!

[McGrew 460]

OK, guys, I need a little more advice.  i was playing around with the tractor this evening when the main drive belt jumped off the engine pulley.  The belt got caught between the engine case and the pulley.  There is only about an eighth of an inch between the pulley and the case, but the belt rides to the top of the pulley and wedges against the case.  It makes for quite a smoke storm until you shut it off!  I put the belt back on the pulley, and adjusted the “fingers” that keep the belt on the pulley to the recommended 1/32” clearance.  I fired it up and all was fine for about 20 seconds, and it did the same exact thing...  I put the belt back on the pulley and quickly parked the tractor.  Can anyone tell me what is causing this?  I assume a new belt is in order, but don’t want to ruin a brand new belt if something else is going on...  What should I look for?  Thanks for all your help!

[953 nut 55,818]

Was the clutch spring tightening the belt well? How far away from the belt were the fingers?

It is probably new belt time. My guess is the damaged area will continue to jump off. Is this a new belt? If so, was it a 5L-820 (AKA B-79)?

[McGrew 460]

953 Nut, The clutch spring seemed fine, but I probably have less than 30 minutes on the tractor since the trans rebuild.  Until today, all seemed normal. I have to admit I do not know how close the fingers were prior to the belt coming off.  that is something I neglected to check...  When it came off the first time, I adjusted both fingers to about 1/32” clearance, but by then the damage may have been done.  It was not a new belt, but did not have any visible damage.  I have no idea how old it is.  Something I didn’t mention was when I first put the belt on after rebuilding the transmission, I had the belt on the wrong side of the guide welded inside the belt  cover.  When I first started it up, it squealed pretty bad.  That probably did not help either...  Live and learn, right?  Thanks for the belt size info!  Saves me the trouble of looking it up!  Thanks for your help!   BTW, I love Franklin, and ride my motorcycle through there often!

Edited September 4, 2018 by McGrew
Clarification

[ebinmaine 68,398]

@McGrew

It's worth mentioning for others that the belt must be a cloth sided one to ensure proper slippage on the engine pulley when disengaged.

 

 

PM sent.

[McGrew 460]

Eric,  OK, you got me on that one...  Cloth sided?  I understand what you are saying, but did not give that any thought...   My local Tractor Supply has the correct size belt in stock, but doubt  it is cloth sided....  This is the one was going to purchase:

  Tractor Supply claims it is a Kevlar construction.  I know that isn't cloth, but will it work?  Or am I asking for more trouble...  Trouble seems to be following me around lately...  I was hoping to purchase the belt locally, as I cannot guarantee the factory size will fit since the tractor was repowered...  It went from a 10hp Techy to a 14hp OHV Techy...  Thoughts?

[ebinmaine 68,398]

20 minutes ago, McGrew said:

Thoughts?

That should be the one Danny. When I say cloth sided, I mean just make sure you don't get a regular Automotive rubber belt. That'll get you in all kinds of fun trouble.

[Machineguy 877]

After reading posts by @stevasaurus I’ve come to understand how Luke Skywalker felt when talking with Yoda.

 

The force is strong with Stevasaurus! 

 

[oliver2-44 9,870]

Many of us are young “Luke’s”. I’n the world of WH transmission with Stevasarus as our Yoda and Force combined.  My self especially.

[McGrew 460]

I have to agree.  Without Steve's videos and coaching, I would not have torn into this transmission.  This thing would be spilling oil like the Exxon Valdez, and my bearings would be chewing up shafts!  

[stevasaurus 22,869]

Thank you for the compliments guys, but I am just one in a bunch of us that get a kick out of saving transmissions.   

 

You need the cloth covered belt and the finger adjustments must be like 1/4" to  3/16" by the drive pulley...top and bottom.  The belt guard funnels the slack toward the drive pulley when you step on the clutch pedal.  You need room for the belt to put slack there, from the guard, without falling out of the groove of the pulley.  (1/32" may be too close). The cloth cover allows the belt to slip on the drive pulley...keeps it from riding the bottom of the groove in the pulley.  Never use any belt dressing on the drive belt. 

 

Not your engine, but you can see the finger on the top...there is also a strip of metal that comes out off the bottom of the guard that is just as close.

 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,869]

Looking back through your thread, I do have to tell you that I have had trouble with seals also. 

[McGrew 460]

Thank you Steve!  The new belt is installed, but I have not had a chance to try it yet.  Was getting late, and I did not want to go any further.  I will put a little more space between the fingers and belt and fire it up tomorrow.  Keeping my fingers crossed.  The old belt was really chewed up.  I can see why it would not stay on!  Seals?  Thank goodness I am beyond that!  

[McGrew 460]

OK guys, I need your help.  The new belt will not stay on the engine pulley.  I tried adjusting the fingers anywhere from close to zero clearance to 3/16”.  I tried tightening the clearance on the bottom finger and loosening the top one.  No luck.  It seems increasing the clearance makes the problem worse.  The best it has worked was with the bottom finger pushing upward on the belt, and about 1/32” clearance on the top.  In this configuration, it only jumps off the pulley once out of every 4 times I step on the clutch.  The belt alignment looks good, as do the pulleys.  The belt is still in good shape.  Take a look at the pics and let me know what you think. 

 

The first pic is how it should ride.  Notice in the second pic, the belt is on top of the pulley and wedged against the engine block...  I am wondering if a shorter belt would help?  This is a brand new 5L-820, but I can buy one an inch shorter.  When I compared the new belt to the old one, the new one seemed just a tiny bit longer...  When the clutch is disengaged, the tension on the belt feels fine.  Not tight, but certainly not sloppy either.  Keep in mind, this tractor was repowered.  The original 10HP Techy was replaced by a 14HP OHV Techy.  I don’t have the original motor in my possession to compare the shaft heights.  The old belt that worked great until it came off was too worn to find any size.  Please help!  

[pfrederi 17,885]

The belt looks like it wants to run off the inside of the engine pulley.  have you put  straight edge against the trany input pulley up to the engine pulley to make sure they are in perfect alignment??

 

[McGrew 460]

Paul,  I have not...  I have only eyeballed it, and if it is out, it isn’t by much.  That said,, i will put a straightedge on it tonight.  Thanks for the suggestion!  On another subject, the manual that came with the tractor recommends 1/32” clearance between the fingers and belt.  Steve recommends a larger gap.  FWIW, the belt comes off regardless of the clearance.   I trust Steve’s judgement, as he got me through the six speed rebuild.  I am just an amateur when it comes to these tractors.  I know belt technology has changed.  Maybe that is one reason for the larger gaps?  Thanks!  Danny

[pfrederi 17,885]

Another thought is your idler pulley also in line both engaged and disengaged.  The arm it is on may be slightly bent causing it to move out of line when you disengage that puts side pressure on the belt and may help it jump off the engine pulley when you disengage

[McGrew 460]

Thanks Paul.   That is something else I will check tonight.  I think I’ve had the floorboard and belt cover off about 6 times in the last 4 hours.  I think I can do it blindfolded now!  Danny