C120 vs Charger axles

[mikeeyre74 289]

 Are the axles from  a hydro C120 the same as the axles in a 69 charger with  the 10 pinion limited slip?  Or, conversely, can you swap the entire axle end differential from a C120 hydro static into the transaxle case of a charger? 

 

 I have a charger that has issues right now with the axles. There is a guy on craigslist selling a hydrostat out of a C120  for a reasonable price. I’m wondering if I should pick that up and run it? The only other issue is that my charger has hydraulic lift and the 120 in question does not…  and I would certainly like the hydraulic lift to function when all is said and done. anyone have any answers?

[daveoman1966 3,762]

If you can find the right parts, you can add the hyd lift to the C-120.  I have SOME of the parts needed and others can be had on ebay or maybe the classified section here.  The Charger hyd system is considerably different from the C-120 as the Sundstrand units (90-2062 vs 90-1136 or 90-1140) have different hyd line connections and ram cylinder is also diff.  I will try to post some pics...

One of these pics is a stripped-down Charger 12 and should be like yours.  Others are what's needed to add a hyd kit to a C-120

It would be MUCH EASIER to work with you on this thru separate emails...outside of Red Square.  

Send me an email for further info..  I am:

daveoman@windstream.net

[953 nut 55,835]

9 hours ago, mikeeyre74 said:

There is a guy on craigslist selling a hydrostat out of a C120  for a reasonable price. I’m wondering if I should pick that up and run it?

One word of caution, can the seller's statement that Hydro is good be trusted? There are lots of sad stories about people buying a used Hydro only to find out that it isn't any good. If it ends up being a bad unit then you can use the axles and differential on yours.

If you do the swap I think you should be able to use the parts Dave showed here from your old unit to convert the replacement to a Hydro Lift. You already have the hoses, cylinder and rockshaft etc.

[mikeeyre74 289]

 Yeah, I don’t think it was clear enough in my original post. I was still looking to use my charger trans axle if possible, and just swap the axles from the 120 into that case. That way, I don’t have to change any of the hydraulic ports, springs, etc. to make it work. My charger already has hydraulics.  My concern was that the axles on the 120 would be different from the axles on the charger, because of the different differentials. Also, even if the 120 transmission was known to be good, it doesn’t have hydraulic lift, and since that is a later model of machine, and has a different pump and motor set up than the Hydrogear on my charger, I’m pretty sure that probably wouldn’t work.  But axles are axles, and the later model pumps and motors could at least be rebuilt on the side if I needed one, and I don’t have any spares of sundstrand transaxles. 

 

I do do have an Eaton 1100, but I’m sure that’s a whole other ball of wax and would not likely drop right in to an old Charger frame!

[daveoman1966 3,762]

A while back I thot there was a video on Utube addressing the issue of swap out of the differentials with axles from 8-pinion of the C-120 to the 10-pinion LSD found in your trans.   have a look in utube...key word search of wheellhorse trans ...

[Sarge 3,463]

I believe if you want to swap over to the later model C-series hydro (piston to piston) the valve/spring parts should be available from LJ Fluid Power in Michigan. If your old model hydrogear is still strong - don't be afraid to run it and repair the axle issue.
I thought somewhere around here there was a specific thread covering the differences in doing a swap between the limited slip units and later style differentials/axles ?

 

Sarge

[mikeeyre74 289]

29 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

A while back I thot there was a video on Utube addressing the issue of swap out of the differentials with axles from 8-pinion of the C-120 to the 10-pinion LSD found in your trans.   have a look in utube...key word search of wheellhorse trans ...

 

 I spent a good 15 minutes looking, but it must be buried in there pretty good as I cannot locate it. 

[mikeeyre74 289]

23 minutes ago, Sarge said:

I believe if you want to swap over to the later model C-series hydro (piston to piston) the valve/spring parts should be available from LJ Fluid Power in Michigan. If your old model hydrogear is still strong - don't be afraid to run it and repair the axle issue.
I thought somewhere around here there was a specific thread covering the differences in doing a swap between the limited slip units and later style differentials/axles ?

 

Sarge

 

 My intention is to get the transmission back together and run the thing until it runs no more. If it fails, I was going to pick up a later model piston to piston set up and install that after refurbishing it.  My last idea what is going to be looking at what it would take to swap in Eaton 11 if possible because I have one of those collecting dust around here as well.  It yeah,  i’d like to keep it original if possible. 

[953 nut 55,835]

34 minutes ago, mikeeyre74 said:

I was still looking to use my charger trans axle if possible

Have you considered repairing your present axles? Take a look at this post.

 

[mikeeyre74 289]

2 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Have you considered repairing your present axles? Take a look at this post.

 

 

 Oh, absolutely! My current axles are at the machine shop already and they are getting full length keyways machine in them and having the hubs re-broached for a better fit.  

 

 The problem is, they’ve been there for three weeks and I’m getting itchy. There’s a guy I could get to in about half an hour that has the complete transaxle that I could use, the only problem being that it isn’t meant for a hydrostatic lift. Also, I really just don’t know if it’s any good.  If I knew the axles were good, I would probably get the transaxle and then try to order the springs, balls and other bits to make the hydrostat lift work.  Then, I could put the original charger transmission back together at my leisure and have it ready for if anything ever happened with either of my other two sundstrand transmissions. 

[daveoman1966 3,762]

Your Charger axles are 1 1/8" dia...right?  If so, what is their length and how many splines are on the Gear end of them.  I have a matched pair of axles that MAY match...not sure.  With the long keyway slots, me thinks these are from C-120 C-160 etc.  The older tractors like Chargers have a shorter keyway slot...same width though.  

Edited May 25, 2018 by daveoman1966

[mikeeyre74 289]

 I took a few pictures while I was disassembling it, and mine have 17 splines on the gear end of the axle… I don’t know how long they are, because they are at the machine shop right now where they have been for the best part of a month… 

[pfrederi 17,886]

The splines are all the same.  Differences  I have seen are some have the snap ring some drilled for a roll pin.  Either works.  Differing length key-ways not an issue, width that would be an issue but again most all I have ever seen same width.  lengths change but if you can live with the hub out a bit from the case or as in one of mine the axle recessed about 3/8" from the hub face. I put a 10 pinion into a modern 8 speed no problems.

Edited May 25, 2018 by pfrederi