RJ58 Hard to Roll In Neutral

[Horse Play 393]

Hey guys,

 

I just bought an RJ58 roller project.  All the gears seem to engage just fine and turn the input shaft like they should, but there is a lot of resistance when pushing the tractor in neutral.  When pushing in neutral, I can hear gears winding (which cannot be good).  Thanks for any help!

[953 nut 55,822]

 Have you drained it to see what kind of Goo comes out? 

[Horse Play 393]

Not yet, I just got it off the truck last night.  I was thinking about draining and then soaking in kerosene. 

[Lane Ranger 10,992]

I bet your reverse idler up front has some issues  and like Richard says the goo in the case is probably  colorful and thick!  Cleaning out and  checking  with brake side panel off will reveal the issues.

 

[stevasaurus 22,869]

Hi..  if that horse has been grazing for some years, you can bet that the bronze bearings on both ends of the axle are dry, old or anything but lubed.  Knowing that you can shift gears just tells you that the cluster gear shaft and spline shaft and fork gears are not frozen in place.  They are not bronze. 

   Drain the oil and fill the trans with diesel...or kerosene.  Pushing it should become easier if it is dry bronze.  it will also clean it out a little.  I would then drop the trans and open it to really see what is there...especially if you are going to rebuild and use the horse.  Just know that filling with diesel or kerosene will probably leak through your, now dry, oil seals.  Keep pans under the trans and don't push on the lawn.  How about some pictures for all the good advise??   

[WHX?? 49,175]

6 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

How about some pictures for all the good advise?? 

[Horse Play 393]

Thank you for the advice, guys.

 

So I went to drain the transmission, but someone rounded off the drain and fill plugs with the wrong tool.  This tractor is a wreck and the transmission in no exception.  It's leaking out of everywhere and there's some kind of terrible patch job on the left axle tube.    

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Horse Play

[stevasaurus 22,869]

Thank you for the pictures.  Believe it or not, that trans is very savable...even that nice looking welding job.  A small pipe wrench will make short work of that plug, and you can get another one at ACE or TSC.  I know this is a long thread, but the information in it is invaluable...check it out.  Parts are available from some of the members on the site.  That horse is worth saving. 

 

 

[Horse Play 393]

Awesome thread, Steve - thanks!  I'll be referencing that multiple times.

 

I've only had a little time to work on my new project, but I did manage to drain the transmission.  Luckily the plugs were not too tight and vice grips worked just fine.  I lifted up the left-side tires to angle the tractor as much as possible.  I only got about four cups of brown water, probably from when I power washed the tractor yesterday.  

[Lane Ranger 10,992]

You want to see a patch on an RJ  transmission Horse Play  -this is a patch :   and it is good enough to reuse !

 

[Howie 892]

Someone wanted more support on that axle tube didn't they!

[Horse Play 393]

Wow, that's a patch!

[stevasaurus 22,869]

@Horse Play  take out one of those bottom plate bolts to drain the trans.  

[Horse Play 393]

On 5/14/2018 at 12:12 PM, stevasaurus said:

@Horse Play  take out one of those bottom plate bolts to drain the trans.  

Ah, good idea.  I propped up the the tractor to the right , pulled the filler plug to vent, then removed the cover bolt below the drain plug - nothing but clear water poured out.  

 

No one in town had 1/8" or 1/4" NPT, so I had to order plugs.  How long should I soak the transmission?  Should I fill it almost to the top?

[953 nut 55,822]

9 hours ago, Horse Play said:

How long should I soak the transmission?  Should I fill it almost to the top?

Jack it up, put a big drip pan under it (gonna leak a bit), and fill it almost to the top, if you have an old electric motor around you can clamp it to the frame and run the transmission in each gear for a while. If you plan to take it apart (I think you need to) then one flush should be enough. If you plan to put gear oil back in and drive I would flush it three or four times.

[stevasaurus 22,869]

Like Richard, I think you want to open it up.  Flush it first to make the job nicer.  There is a real good manual in the Manuals/Transmissions section to use along with the videos. 

[Horse Play 393]

7 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

Like Richard, I think you want to open it up.  Flush it first to make the job nicer.  There is a real good manual in the Manuals/Transmissions section to use along with the videos. 

I know I should open it up, but I really don't want to at all!

[stevasaurus 22,869]

How much up, down, side to side play do you have with the rear axles???  You should not have any...an 1/8" would be a lot.  Some would indicate your bronze bearings are worn...axle damage follows that.  

[oliver2-44 9,872]

Also check if you input drive pulley shaft has any in/ out play it should not have any. It will eat up gears if it had movement

[Horse Play 393]

20 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

How much up, down, side to side play do you have with the rear axles???  You should not have any...an 1/8" would be a lot.  Some would indicate your bronze bearings are worn...axle damage follows that.  

There's a good bit of axle play.  I haven't had time lately, but I did manage to separate the transmission from the rest of the tractor.  Hopefully I can get the hubs and brake stuff off and pull the left cover this weekend.

 

I won't order one until I know what going on inside, but who makes the best rebuild kit?

[Horse Play 393]

7 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

Also check if you input drive pulley shaft has any in/ out play it should not have any. It will eat up gears if it had movement

 

Just checked it, feels very solid with no play.

[stevasaurus 22,869]

Can you put a picture of the trans in here...that would help.  @Jake Kuhn was selling kits as a vendor here...so is Lowe @wheelhorseman  It is best to open up, pull it apart and clean it and then order what you need.  There is a lot that may still be good.  You can also get a lot of the bearings and seals from Motion Industries.  Both of the vendors are excellent to deal with.  

[Horse Play 393]

Thanks for the help.  I'm been busy getting a nursery ready, so I haven't had any time to work on the tractor - I gotta keep the Mrs. happy!  As soon as I get the transmission open, I'll post photos.

 

So it looks like I was mistaken; the axle shafts seem solid and the play is from loose hubs.

[Horse Play 393]

OK, here's what I got.

 

- The teeth on the small, wider brake shaft gear are chipped in the center.

 

- The teeth on the cluster gears are damaged on the left-side of the gears.

 

This is the first time I've opened a transmission on anything, so I'm not sure on what to do next!

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,869]

At this point, I would take it apart and clean it out, wire wheel the rust off the gears, replace the seals and any bad bearings.  There are some good videos in this thread and a link to the manual below that.  great pictures...someone has been in here before.  It looks like your differential was replaced, you have the newer model with the bolt on drive gear.