Need 1973 4 speed axle seals

[tntatro 174]

I found a 10 pinion differential but one of the pinion gear carriers is cracked. It's off a 1973 14hp automatic. It doesn't say what size axle it's for. Is the cracked part hard to replace? It's not the ring gear, I guess it's called the body. Probably won't fit my 73 no name but maybe the C-160 8 speed. Any thoughts, it's $75.

I've found other potential stuff but nobody returns my messages. I see Raider 10 and 12 transmissions and a couple 1973 12hp 8 speed and a Charger 12 automatic.

[953 nut 55,837]

47 minutes ago, tntatro said:

It doesn't say what size axle it's for. Is

All of the ten pinion units are 1 1/8"

Be sure the unit you buy is in good operating condition, some sellers have not tested them and will represent junk as being "Like New".

[tntatro 174]

6 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Be sure the unit you buy is in good operating condition

They said it is cracked so I guess it's no good without that part. I'm sure something will come up eventually.

[WHX?? 49,177]

When you say cracked Tat are you reffering to the side plates that hold the diff together?  If so and they are aluminum that is common and due to over torquing of the diff plates. Might not be an issue unless used for a heavy work horse. Here again @stevasaurus should comment.

[tntatro 174]

4 minutes ago, WHX14 said:

are you reffering to the side plates that hold the diff together?

It's one of the pieces that fits the pinion gears inside. A spot on the outer circumference is cracked almost all the way.

[tntatro 174]

[tntatro 174]

I tried to copy and paste but it's a little small. It's on eBay.

[953 nut 55,837]

Before you even consider spending money on a differential be sure the axles that fit it are the same size  as the transaxle you intend to use them in. Your four speed is probably 1" and the ten pinions were all  1 1/8".

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Right, your #5085 4 speed transmission has a 4 pinion differential with 1" axles.  Like was stated above, ALL10 pinion differentials have 1 1/8" axles and are in hi/low transmissions or auto transaxles.  The differential you are looking at is not worth anything, much less $75 with a cracked body WH part # 7200.  It does look like that part #7200 is common to all of the 10 pinion differentials though and is the same on both sides of the bull gear....you may be able to find that part, but you would also need an 6/8 speed case to use it in.  If you are looking for a limited slip transmission, I would find a whole one and go from there.  If you have an 8 speed horse, you could find a good 10 pinion differential and change out your 8 pinion differential.  Know this though...the axles in your 8 pinion are the same length...the axles in a 10 pinion differential are different lengths, ie...one of the axles is longer then the other.    If you do a search, there are a few threads on changing out differentials.

[tntatro 174]

Thanks for all the great advice and information. I really came to the right place for Wheel Horse information. I think for now I'll focus on fixing what I have unless I come across a nice deal on a transmission or tractor. I managed to find an original Wheel Horse package of five oil seals on eBay for a reasonable price so I can replace them now and still have some for when I do the bearings later. I've been putting a little kerosene on the hubs every once in a while hoping it might make things easier to take apart later.

[WHX?? 49,177]

Sounds like a good plan. Never hurts to have a few of those seals on the shelf.

[tntatro 174]

Sometime this week I plan to replace that axle seal if I can get the hub off. Do you basically just pry the old one out and put the new one in?

I picked up a Raider 12 six speed yesterday. It's not bad looking but the engine smokes a bit. It also needs a new drive belt I think. It won't hardly move in any gear above 1st. I tried testing the limited slip by spinning the tires but only one would spin. Not sure if there is damage or the slipping belt preventing it from engaging. It was a two owner tractor and I don't think the transmission was switched but maybe it was. I also got a nice deal on an 8 speed transmission.

[tntatro 174]

With further inspection the Raider 12 appears to have the 8 speed transmission. I was hoping it was a 6 speed but at least the 8 is more durable from what I have read. Maybe some day I'll find a good 10 pinion transmission or differential. I think I got a good deal anyway. $300 + a used Stihl ms250 chainsaw for trade.

[tntatro 174]

So far no luck getting the hub off. I sprayed it with WD-40 to let it soak. I guess I'll have to find a puller and see if I have any better luck. I did mow a lawn with it today though and it runs pretty good and drives fast in 3rd. The lawn was bumpy and I had to hold it in gear when in 3rd or it would keep popping out.

[953 nut 55,837]

7 hours ago, tntatro said:

had to hold it in gear when in 3rd or it would keep popping out.

This is an all too common problem. At some point in your  life a previous owner was shifting it on the fly and the  2/3 gear has excessive wear on it. When the time comes to rebuild it the new gear is available through a vendor on this site.

7 hours ago, tntatro said:

getting the hub off. I sprayed it with WD-40 to let it soak. I guess I'll have to find a puller

Hubs can be a pain. Use some PB Blaster or KROIL rather than WD. You will probably want to use a hydraulic jack puller and another hub as pictured.You want to distribute the force as evenly as possible. Whatever you do, do NOT hit the hub with a hammer.

Edited April 23, 2018 by 953 nut

[tntatro 174]

Thanks for the info. Is that a homemade puller? 

 

Too late about hitting it with a hammer. I didn't go too crazy with it. Hopefully nothing got damaged.

[953 nut 55,837]

10 hours ago, tntatro said:

didn't go too crazy with it. Hopefully nothing got damaged.

There are two potential areas of damage, the cast hub could crack or be broken and the snap ring inside the diferential can be broken or dislodged and the axle will come out of the transmission.

The puller is home brew and consists of another hub, some all-thread rods with nuts (the more the better) and a hydraulic bottle jack.

[tntatro 174]

15 hours ago, 953 nut said:

previous owner was shifting it on the fly

I can't say that I blame the previous owner for shifting on the fly, the front wheels pop up if you pop the clutch in full throttle at a stop. The first time I did it in third I was on a slight up hill grade and pulled a wheelie for about five feet. Since I put on 23" lug tires it's not as bad, I thought it would be worse than the 20" turf tires but no wheelies since I switched tires. Either that or the belt is slipping.

 

Found a bottle jack that might work. It's not hydraulic but I'll try it first before buying another jack. My hydraulic bottle jack is a little too big. I did get some threaded rods.

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Why do you think you have an 8 pinion instead of a 10.  All raider 12s came with 10 pinion differentials...unless someone changed it.  It sounds like you put a new belt on that horse and got it running in all gears.  Look at the back of the transmission...find the fill plug on the left side behind the axle.  Does it have a 1" extension between the trans case and the plug??   Take off the seat and fender pan...use a flashlight down one of the bolt holes and look down the other.  With trans on blocks, turn a wheel and count the bolts or nuts holding the differential together.  8 pinion has 4 bolts...10 pinion has 5. 

[tntatro 174]

48 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

Why do you think you have an 8 pinion instead of a 10.  All raider 12s came with 10 pinion differentials...unless someone changed it.  It sounds like you put a new belt on that horse and got it running in all gears.  Look at the back of the transmission...find the fill plug on the left side behind the axle.  Does it have a 1" extension between the trans case and the plug??   Take off the seat and fender pan...use a flashlight down one of the bolt holes and look down the other.  With trans on blocks, turn a wheel and count the bolts or nuts holding the differential together.  8 pinion has 4 bolts...10 pinion has 5. 

I thought it has the 8 pinion because just one wheel will spin when I get stuck. Also, I jacked the tires off the ground and when I spin one the other goes the opposite direction.

 

No new belt yet, I switched conversations and started referring to the 73 no name for mowing and removing hubs. The Raider still only goes in 1st or low gears.

 

No 1" extension on plug. About to look further.

[tntatro 174]

I took out the two bolts under the seat and looking through I can only see gears. I can't see any bolts or nuts.

[tntatro 174]

I'm trying to get a hub off the Raider to use for a puller. The hub is very loose but will not come off. There is a second bolt with the head broke off that I think might be holding it. Even a small pipe wrench didn't loosen it, I'm afraid it might break if I try harder. Any suggestions?

[pfrederi 17,887]

Some hubs had two set screws.  One over the woodruff key the other 90 degrees off of it.  is the broken one in line with the keyway on the hub?  If the area around the broken bolts looks like it was machined it is factory ...no machining probably a PO's attempt.  I leaned the hard way i did it to one of my Chargers.  I broke the second set crew off flush tightening down the jam nut. I am leaving it for the next owner to worry about

 

You might take take your dremel with a cut off wheel and cut a slot across the end of the broken set screw deep enough to get a screw driver into it and use an impact driver... If you have a welder, weld a nut on the end of the broken bolt. (welding only inside the nut)

Edited April 24, 2018 by pfrederi

[tntatro 174]

43 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

is the broken one in line with the keyway on the hub?

No, I can take out the one over the keyway. I was thinking about grinding a little off the sides to fit a wrench on. I may end up making a puller with a metal plate instead of an extra hub. 

[953 nut 55,837]

35 minutes ago, tntatro said:

I may end up making a puller with a metal plate instead of an extra hub.

That is probably better, most of us aren't ambitious to drill five holes so we use what we have.