Need 1973 4 speed axle seals

[tntatro 174]

Hello, I recently changed the transmission oil in my 1973 8hp no name and now one of the axle seals is leaking.

 

Should I just replace the one seal or when they reach this point do you generally replace both sides or do even more maintenance? Also, where can I find the right parts? By a little research I think this is a 5085 transmission but I'm not positive. It just has 3 forward and reverse, no hi/low.

 

Thanks, Tim

[rmaynard 15,610]

Pinned to the top of this section "Transmissions and transaxles" is a post listing the cross reference for bears and seals. You will find your answer there.

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/42506-bearing-and-seal-cross-numbers/

 

[953 nut 55,824]

Prior to replacing the seal you should jack the rear end up a bit and check for any play (up/down or front to rear) to be sure there isn't a bad bearing causing the seal to leak.

If you have 1" axles the seal would be a SKF 9815.

[tntatro 174]

21 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Prior to replacing the seal you should jack the rear end up a bit and check for any play

I just quickly went out and checked. There is a slight amount of play in both sides. When I lift then drop I hear a slight bump. Should they be solid with no signs of play at all? I know on my chainsaws they would be changed with any amount of play detected.

[rmaynard 15,610]

The only play should be in and out (about 1/8") Up and down or front to back indicates worn bearings.

[WHX?? 49,175]

good advice above and we have a member here @wheelhorsemanthat has all the bearings and seals you would need. 

[tntatro 174]

I'm sure the bearings are worn then. The play is very slight but there. Could it further damage the transmission If the bearings broke? I'm into other projects that need to be done so I may just replace the seal for now and see if it holds for a while unless that is highly advised against doing. I've never worked on a transmission so it would likely take me a long time to fix.

[tntatro 174]

What would I be getting into for replacing the bearings? Is this basically time for a transmission rebuild and is this something a beginner can handle? Any ballpark time and cost estimates would be appreciated. I have to budget it between my never ending projects that need to be done.

 

Tim

[WHX?? 49,175]

It's some work to change those outer needle bearings but not real bad. The case has to get split and just changing seals won't get you much. You would have plenty of tutorials from us if you decide to tackle the job. You really won't hurt much to run with leaking seals if you don't have the time to tie into it now just keep the fluid up. I have ran tractors for years  with leaking seals and bad outboard bearings. Big thing is to not work it real hard and watch for walking hubs.

[tntatro 174]

3 minutes ago, WHX14 said:

It's some work to change those outer needle bearings but not real bad. The case has to get split and just changing seals won't get you much. You would have plenty of tutorials from us if you decide to tackle the job. You really won't hurt much to run with leaking seals if you don't have the time to tie into it now just keep the fluid up. I have ran tractors for years  with leaking seals and bad outboard bearings. Big thing is to not work it real hard and watch for walking hubs.

Thanks for the info. I'll probably only mow with it for now. 

 

Are there special tools that I will need or could I get by with basic tools? I imagine while I'm in there I'd want to inspect for wear on other parts also.

[953 nut 55,824]

Here is a great thread done by @stevasaurus that shows all the steps an tools needed. Some auto parts stores can loan pullers and other tools that won't be used frequently.

 

 

[WHX?? 49,175]

11 hours ago, tntatro said:

Are there special tools that I will need or could I get by with basic tools?

Not really ...  basic hand tools will usually get the job done. Hardest part might be getting hubs or frozen hitch pins off but leaking seals might mean they are seeing case oil and that will help.  Yes review the many threads here before hand. as Richard mentioned. Continue this  thread on doing it and the fellas will follow along for advice if needed. You might have to become a supporter to post all the pics we will need along the way.

Edited March 26, 2018 by WHX14

[stevasaurus 22,869]

Here is the thread you want to look at.  This is the #5085 and has videos.  If the oil looked fairly good when you changed it, I would not be too worried about using it for a while.  You can change out the bad seal and get into the trans later.  If those outer bearings are real bad, you run the risk or scoring the axles and you may have to find replacements.  You do not want to go that far. 

   I would say it is usually a 2 day project.  If the hubs come off and the hitch comes out, it can be a labor of love.  Once bad bearings are replaced, you can put the trans gears back together in about 5 minutes.  It is all the stuff on the outside of the trans that can take the time.  The amount of money it costs really depends on how many bearings you need to replace.  All of the bearings and seals and gasket would be around $200.  Replacing the outer axle bearings and all the seals and gasket...$40 to $50.  Check out these videos. 

 

 

[pfrederi 17,886]

If you let the needle bearings go to long this can transpire...Took out the much more expensive inner 1533 bearing in the process.  Keep a close watch on how much up down front rear play you have.

[tntatro 174]

Thanks for all the advice and information. It doesn't look too difficult from the videos. 

 

With the little research I've done I noticed that wheel horse also had some transmissions with limited slip differentials (5060 and 5073). Are those desirable transmissions? They seem like they would be. I know just the other day I was going up a path on a hill and one tire kept spinning in front of a root. After a few attempts to climb the hill I finally had to back way up and put it in 3rd and get speed to go over the root. I always hated how the tire with the least traction does all the spinning.

[WHX?? 49,175]

14 hours ago, tntatro said:

wheel horse also had some transmissions with limited slip differentials (5060 and 5073).

Correct you are sir. These would be the six speed models with a ten pinion differential. The thought was these transmissions would be better for ground engaging attachments. There is a C shaped spring buried between the pinions  that would give limited slip and yes handy on hills, especially with turf tires. . Very very seldom are the low range gears used . For me anyway.

[tntatro 174]

I ordered some axle seals for now. I was hoping to get one of my projects done by tomorrow but the rain has slowed me down. 

 

If I were able to find one of those limited slip transmissions would I be able to swap it out with my four speed?

[WHX?? 49,175]

I would think so Tat but might have to do some minor mods. I do have a  extra 5060  but not for sale at this time.  Projects always seem to get slowed down by anything  and everything! 

[tntatro 174]

What model tractors are likely to have the limited slip? I did a little research and it appears that the Raider models have it but I don't know if they all did. I might be better off getting a whole tractor rather than just the transmission. I think the shafts are different sizes also.

[WHX?? 49,175]

Most early 68's on up have them and will pretty much bolt right up to later F plate frames .

[953 nut 55,824]

1 hour ago, tntatro said:

If I were able to find one of those limited slip transmissions would I be able to swap it out with my four speed?

Easy swap. I put one in a 953, had to swap axles because of their length but that wouldn't be a problem on yours. 5060 transmissions are found in the 1067, 1267, '68 Raider 9 and Raider 12.

[tntatro 174]

Is the 5073 also limited slip? I see it is on some of the Raider 10 tractors.

[WHX?? 49,175]

More n likely  if it is a six speed and  ten pinons.... @stevasaurus would know for sure.

[pfrederi 17,886]

You can also use the differential out of any Charger Electro Hydro to go into a a manual tranny with 1-1/8" axles.  All Charger electros were 10 pinion I believe.

[stevasaurus 22,869]

10 pinion limited slip transmissions...5073, 5060, 5071, 110996, 110995  This list may not be all inclusive.  This might be all the manual transmissions...the 5073, 5060, 5071 are considered 6 speeds...the others are 8 speeds.  That means...the 6 speeds have the brake drum on the 11/44 tooth mushroom gear (hole closest to the rear axle).  the 8 speeds have the brake drum on the cluster gear shaft...(next hole toward the front of the trans).

   Some of the automatics have Sunstrand transaxles that are 10 pinion limited slip some are 8 pinion..  I do not have that list yet.  The best way to check is to pick out an automatic tractor by year...say charger 12 from 1971...go to the manuals section on the main page and find the TPL manual for that horse.  find the trans breakdown...in this case (5062).  Check how many pinions in the differential (10).  The #5062 transaxle is a 10 pinion limited slip differential.    I think you need to be careful here.  Do not go by Sundstrand numbers...that is the pump, not the transaxle.  I am not positive, but a Sundstrand #3100077 could have an 8 pinion transaxle or a 10 pinion.  You need to check the manual and count the pinions...and remember that I am talking from the factory.  A Private Owner may have changed the differentials out also.  To check that...take off the seat and fender pan...look down one of the bolt holes and count the bolt heads or nuts you see holding the differential together.  The 8 pinion has 4 bolts...the 10 pinion has 5 bolts.