Need help with transaxle for a "62 702

[Achto 27,815]

1 hour ago, Crazy_Carl said:

Is there a cheap way to buy just gaskets and seals or just the gasket? 

 

Here is a link that will have cross references for the seals. This will help you so you may find the seals locally.

 

And a link for the 3912 tranny gasket.http://www.psep1.biz/arinet.asp?aribrand=TO#/Toro_Consumer/702%2c_702_Tractor%2c_1962/MODELS_502%2c_552_AND_702_SUBURBAN_TRACTORS/702-5203-1962/502-P-50200003-0001

 

The 3912 gasket should also be available through your local Toro dealer. for a round $4

Edited February 14, 2018 by Achto

[Crazy_Carl 254]

Thanks for all of this really useful information,  Last night I ordered seals, gasket, and the shift boot.  On payday I want to order the 3rd gear.  Can you pop the seals out of the case with a screwdriver and then drive the new one in with a socket?  Does anybody use gasket maker or silicone with the gasket when they assemble it?  I'd like to put on a set of 5 lug hubs possibly with a longer set of axles too, or I can you wheel spacers to space my wheels out.  Maybe I could just put wheel spacers on the 3 lug hubs I have to save money.

[stevasaurus 22,872]

The Wheel Horse factory never used silicone or gasket sealer and neither do I.  Really no need if you get everything clean. 

Yes you can pop out the seals and tap the new ones back in...I use a tool for pulling carter pins.  The seals should be flush with the outside of the casting.    As far as axle length, I am thinking that the Commando might have had the longest 1" axles that Wheel Horse used.  Your axles are 1"...how long is your axle?

 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,872]

18 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

More then likely, you will find one of the balls under one of the shift forks, and the spring and stop and the other ball are in place.  Don't ask how I know that. 

 

All right...am I good or what!!! 

[Crazy_Carl 254]

1 hour ago, stevasaurus said:

 

All right...am I good or what!!! 

 

You are good.  The ball wasn't under the shift fork though it was in the oil.  I'm thinking that whoever assembled this last tried to do it upside down with the wider case half on the bottom.  When they put the other case on, the shift fork came out and so did one of the balls, but they slapped it together anyway.  I will measure the overall axle width soon.

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Wheel Horse had 2 axle diameters...1" and 1 1/8".  The 1 1/8" axles are only in the 6, 8 & heavy duty 3 speeds and will not work in your case halves.  The 1" axles are in the 3 (not heavy duty), 4 and the #5086-8 speed horses.  Yours is a 1" diameter axle.  You will not have a lot of choices for different lengths.  Yours are probably around 11 5/8", if I remember right...but being a Commando they may be the longer ones...maybe 12 1/4".  Not totally sure about the exact lengths, but that is about all your options with the 1" axles.  Another choice would be to change out the transmission to an 8 speed with 1 1/8" axles...do what needs to be fabricated to make the linkage work and go from there..  Your axle length choices are not that much more, but building out with something would be better on the 1 1/8" axles.

    Many members have done things like this.  Hopefully they will chime in here.  There is a lot to search for also.

 

[Crazy_Carl 254]

Sounds like my best option is to keep my stock axles.  Are there 5 lug hubs that go on 1" axles?  I'm not interested in spending money on another transaxle right now.  I like this old one a lot and I think it's built very well.  It's certainly made better than most lawn mower transaxles with 3/4 inch axles out there.  I'm using wider 12" rims from an 8 speed wheel horse for my build.  I can get wheel spacers to widen my track width.

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Actually, that #5086 transmission uses 5 hole hubs on 1" axles...you find it on 8 and 10 hp Kohler Raiders around 1972.  They may also be used on the heavy duty 3 speeds...not positive...need Richard to chime in here.  They are a little hard to find, but you may find them at the Big Show in June.    It is not that they are rare...it is that they were just not used in many of the 1" axle transmissions.

   Maybe if you better explained what you are trying to do, we could be of more help.  We might be able to save you a lot of time and money...and know where to go looking. 

 

[Crazy_Carl 254]

I found another clue why that ball wasn't in the right place.  I found a piece of the spring that looks like it was broken off while someone was trying to assemble this the last time.

 

My axle shafts are 10.5" long.

 

Saturday night I saw on craigslist someone selling a 1962 Wheel Horse 702 in pieces for $150 which seemed like a good deal.  I also found a nice OHV 196cc Kohler motor that I could power it with.  I decided that this would make a cool rat rod style mud/rally tractor that I'm entering in the ATLTF 2018 build off.  As I'm digging into these parts I'm starting to realize that the guy just threw some parts together and sold me what he called a "702"  I'm not sure if this is the transaxle that would'f came with this tractor, but since I'm not restoring it I really don't care, for my purposes this is the perfect pile of parts to start with.  I would like to space out my rear wheels more, but I can just buy some spacers off of ebay to accomplish that.

[953 nut 55,851]

17 minutes ago, Crazy_Carl said:

I would like to space out my rear wheels more, but I can just buy some spacers off of ebay to accomplish that.

Miller Tire sells rim blanks and centers you can weld up to accomplish a much wider rear stance by having nearly no backspace.

[WHX?? 49,177]

1 hour ago, stevasaurus said:

They are a little hard to find,

Are you saying this extra pair of 1" five holes I have are like hen's teeth Steve?  I may be able to part with the set pending an upcoming build I have.

[stevasaurus 22,872]

1" 5 hole axle hubs are not common.  They were used on the #5086...not sure if they wee used on the heavy duty 3 speeds.  Where are you @953 nut  ??  I would not use them as hub pullers because of that.  I would think that there is really nothing wrong with the 3 hole hubs...if you break one...put another one on.    Jim, I would not donate them to some project that makes a horse something else then is was designed for.  The locked differential scares me off the top. 

 

I am going to say this...when it comes to spare parts for tractors that are not made any more...I would rather see these parts go to rehab original horses.    I understand that someone has bought a horse to do what they want with it...and that is their right and is OK.  It is just where I am at.  Hope you all understand that also.  

 

[WHX?? 49,177]

They came off a 1055 Dino

You talking 'bout this Crazy??

http://www.atltf.com/

Note they got a  on the home page but color is somewhat sacrilegious!  

[Achto 27,815]

The 3 bolt hubs will most likely hold up fine. If you really want 5 bolt hubs for 1" axles check with A to Z Tractors. He is in our vendor section. I know he has some.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

OK I'm no rear hub expert but since theses cast versions are longer made (just wondering out loud here) if someone like myself (machinist) were to use a 4100 series tool steel and make up new ones if they would hold up as good as the cast versions maybe 2 parts the actual axle hub with keyway and set screws then the wheel/rim flange with the stud/bolt holes, the hub machined to press fit into the flange then welded ...I see many parts through out the factory machined/made very similar and holding up quite well where no one cares till its broken, again just thinking out loud probably will get me in trouble, Jeff.

[Sarge 3,463]

Machined hubs made from 4100 material would be great - but I'd imagine the wheel ring would have to be a little thicker. A heavier diameter hub could be done as well as provide two positions to better lock the hubs to the keyways as well. We're getting a ton of original equipment replacement parts from our vendors here, nothing wrong with adding some hubs to that mix as the cast iron ones in good condition are getting tougher to find - most are worn already pretty badly from being in service for so many years. Cost is always the determining factor - I'd imagine they would have to be down to around the price of really nice hubs to be able to market them easily - otherwise it's a part that's too expensive for most folks.

 

Sarge

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

@Sarge, what's the steel you use for the blade wear/cutting edges, we don't use much "exotic" steels here at work unless is for hardening for wear items or cutting/extruding dies, maybe that would be a cheaper option than 4100?, Jeff.

[Sarge 3,463]

This is just 1055 high carbon - it isn't all that great and wouldn't work for that type of application. 4100 series is a far better choice but pricey, yes.

 

Sarge

[953 nut 55,851]

On 2/14/2018 at 5:05 PM, stevasaurus said:

1" 5 hole axle hubs are not common.  They were used on the #5086...not sure if they wee used on the heavy duty 3 speeds.  Where are you @953 nut

They aren't all that hard to find, I just parted out a 312-8 with one inch axles and my 310-8 has them too.

[wallfish 17,083]

On 2/14/2018 at 5:05 PM, stevasaurus said:

I am going to say this...when it comes to spare parts for tractors that are not made any more...I would rather see these parts go to rehab original horses.

Uh Oh. No more bike rides for you Steve! Do you have a link to the MTD forum?

 

[WHX?? 49,177]

Take it easy on him 'fish he's gettin old! .......rare?  I'm sittin  on a couple pairs.... sorry for stealin your thread here Crazy... we hope you'll get it. 

[Racinbob 11,235]

1964 was a 'transition' year for the 1" hubs. The 854 had 5 lug hubs and then from 65 on all of them were save for possibly using up some old stock.

[Crazy_Carl 254]

Once again I want to thank everyone for the help in sourcing parts and information on this project.  This transaxle project has gone really well thanks for Red Square.  This past weekend I painted the case halves, installed new seals, gasket, shift boot, and a brand new shift spring.  It shifts great and there's no binding anywhere.

[Crazy_Carl 254]

So a lot of locked differentials destroy themselves very quickly.  I have flipped the pinion gears and locked this one.  Has anyone on here done that before?  Does it usually start a chain of some kind of catastrophic damage?