'74 C160-8 Restomodification in Process

[Achto 27,729]

46 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

The carburetor linkage is so far past extremely loose I'm not quite sure what to do with it.

 

HOO! that looks ruff. First I would look to see how worn the shaft is at the carb bushing. If it is not bad you could replace the bushing in the carburetor and reuse the shaft. Where it is loose on top where the linkage arm connects to the shaft, you could possibly solider the two together.

[WHX?? 49,117]

That that looks real Toast EB. Start working on getting it on the bench. Bushing has to be gone for sure.  Unless you have a real sentimental attachment I would suggest get a $20 cheapy off fleabay.

Here a quick tutorial on rebuild should you go that route. Courtesy of @T-Mo

How To - Carburetor Rebuild.pdf

[ebinmaine 68,156]

18 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

HOO! that looks ruff. First I would look to see how worn the shaft is at the carb bushing. If it is not bad you could replace the bushing in the carburetor and reuse the shaft. Where it is loose on top where the linkage arm connects to the shaft, you could possibly solider the two together.

 

I'll try to get to that in the next few days and see what the shaft itself looks like.

5 minutes ago, WHX14 said:

sentimental attachment

No sentimental attachment whatsoever. I just like to try to use what I have whenever I can. Also, I'm really enjoying learning about the repair processes and how to do a lot of different things on these tractors that I haven't done in the past.

I have no problem whatsoever with replacing Parts when I need to but I would really rather repair it if I can.

[PeacemakerJack 10,738]

The upper bushing on the carb is a must based on the condition of that carb.  I’ve had success with that in the past but I’ve not had one with that much wiggle...so, pull it apart and inspect that throttle plate shaft up and down the length of it especially where it contacts of the upper side of the carb housing.  If the shaft is bad, then you need to decide how much you want to put into that old carb.  If the shaft is good, as mentioned above, I say rebuild it and keep rolling. If someone here has a better condition functional one that they are willing to sell you outright, that might be your best option.

[WHX?? 49,117]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

I would really rather repair it if I can

We hear ya EB and I would too if I had the dang time to do so! At this stage in my life and with the ease of getting a new one. I throw all my old ones in a box and say when I'm retired and the fish ain't biting I will go through them all rebuild them which probably won't happen either. I recently spent 10 bucks and four hours of my life I'll never get back trying to bring back and old Carter from the dead off  a vintage Clinton. Never could get it to run right due to a worn throttle shaft and body. These do not have a replaceable bushing so one must bore and ream and fit a bushing. I just didn't  have the time so I replaced.... for now. Food for thought.

 

18 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

enjoying learning about the repair processes

Nothing wrong with that either!

[PeacemakerJack 10,738]

2 minutes ago, WHX14 said:

I throw all my old ones in a box and say when I'm retired and the fish ain't biting I will go through them all rebuild them which probably won't happen either...

Knowing you Jim, you’ll have a spot set up in your ice shanty someday where you can fish AND rebuild old carburetors at the same time!

[ebinmaine 68,156]

1 minute ago, PeacemakerJack said:

Knowing you Jim, you’ll have a spot set up in your ice shanty someday where you can fish AND rebuild old carburetors at the same time!

Every once in awhile I hear of someone using an alternative bait for fishing. Something weird I would have never thought of. An old carburetor has never yet been one of them!

[Achto 27,729]

@ebinmaine Here is a read on your throttle repair.

 

Short, Flat Bronze Throttle Shaft Bushing for all Carter/Kohler #26, #28, #30 and early Walbro WHG #52, #60, #64 carburetors with a counterbore that's used on Kohler K-series and early Magnum engine models K241/M10, K301/M12, K330/K331, K321/M14, K341/M16, K361 and KT17, KT17 Series II, KT19, KT19 Series II, MV16, M18, MV18, M20, MV20. All Carter and Kohler #26, #28 and #30 carburetors have the counterbore to accept the short, flat bronze throttle shaft bushing. If there's a [worn] rubber seal in the counterbore, this bushing will replace it. Dimensions: 1/4" i.d. x 7/16" o.d. x 1/8" height. NOTE: Apply clean motor oil or clean motor oil, gear oil or lubricating grease on throttle shaft before installing for smooth throttle operation and less wear to shaft, bushing or carburetor body. Go here to learn how to professionally remove Carter/Kohler throttle or choke plate retaining screws without breaking them off.

• High quality aftermarket. Precision-made in the USA of compressed sintered bronze. Very hard material. $4.50 each, plus shipping & handling.
• OEM Kohler part # 25 158 02-S. $10.75 each, plus shipping & handling.
• Installation Service: Install this throttle shaft bushing in your carburetor. $30.00 each for bushing, new screws and labor, plus return shipping & handling. Please contact me if you're interested in this repair service. An innovative concept by Brian Miller, because nobody else advertise this service.

Installation Instructions: The above È bushings makes contact with the upper unworn 1/8" portion of the throttle shaft. The original throttle shaft can be reused with the bushing if it isn't severely damaged. To install the bushing, first of all, to avoid breaking off the soft OEM brass throttle plate retaining screws, use a Dremel or equivalent small rotary grinder chucked with either a small grinding stone (chainsaw sharpening stone) or an 1/8" high speed steel end mill to grind away the flared threads at the end of the screws, then the screws can be removed, and then the shaft can be removed from the carburetor body. If the throttle (or choke) plate retaining screws breaks off, they can be successfully drilled out. Clean out the counterbore and depending on size of carburetor, slide the bushing on a 3/16" or 5mm screw (for the Carter #16, #18, #20, #22 carburetors) or a 1/4" or 6mm screw or bolt (for the Carter/Kohler #26, #28, #30 and early Walbro WHG #52, #60, #64 carburetors) and insert the screw or bolt in the counterbore hole (to align the bushing straight with the counterbore) and use small hammer or bench vise to drive- or press-in the bushing, and then reinstall the shaft.

Additional Note: Usually the short, flat bronze bushing will snug up a worn throttle shaft. With oil for lubrication and a felt or foam seal to keep out dust and dirt (available below Ê), the bushing and shaft should last a long time. If the bushing fits somewhat loose in the counterbore, lightly tap the sides of the counterbore with a hammer to make the counterbore slightly oblong or egg-shaped. The newer Walbro's and the Chinese-made carburetors have no counterbore for the bushing, and sometimes in these carburetors, the [upper] throttle shaft hole will wear. When this happens, just installing a new shaft won't fix the problem. The upper hole must be precision-bored perfectly aligned with the [unworn] lower hole, and a bronze sleeve bushing will need to be installed along with a new throttle shaft. On other makes of carburetors, if the original shaft is worn and a new throttle shaft isn't available, then a new throttle shaft will need to be machined/fabricated. The throttle lever can be reused and welded to the new machined/fabricated shaft. And if necessary, a slightly oversized throttle shaft can be installed instead of the original diameter shaft. I can do all of these things for $50.00± each for parts and labor, plus return shipping & handling.

 

This is from http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/a1miller.htm

Edited January 29, 2018 by Achto

[WHX?? 49,117]

22 minutes ago, PeacemakerJack said:

fish AND rebuild old carburetors at the same time

LOL ...may come to that!

Yes let us know how it pans out EB.

 

That site never ceases to amaze me Dan

Edited January 29, 2018 by WHX14
add

[ebinmaine 68,156]

@Achto.... , thanks for that Dan! Love that Brian Miller site.

 

3 minutes ago, WHX14 said:

LOL ...may come to that!

Yes let us know how it pans out EB.

 

Oh yeah. You bet I will!

[ebinmaine 68,156]

What do I need to do to clean up & resurface the engine block?

I'm attacking the head with sandpaper and glass per this and brianmiller sites.

[oliver2-44 9,835]

Brian Millet sells the throttle shaft bushings but at times he can be very hard to place a order with. Some time ago a member here posted the following info that I saved and used

Your local hardware store with all the little drawers may have a " Hillman brass bushing # 58087.  It looks like a flat brass washer. I used this on a couple of carbs and it took out all the slop and they responded to adjustment much better. I stacked 2 of them in the recess on the top of the carb that the throttle shaft comes through.  On one the shaft fit a little tight , so I took a drill bit the nominal size of the shaft and worked the bit by hand to ream the bushings slightly 

Kohler also makes a bushing part # 2515801-5 but I never found it in stock at any of the online suppliers. 

[ebinmaine 68,156]

13 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

Hillman brass bushing # 58087.  It looks like a flat brass washer.

Fantastic info there... Thanks!

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

Eric, you know I'm a machinist at work, but from you video, where the linkage was "silver soldered" to the throttle shaft the "square" punched hole looks very worn oversize to the machined flats, which would also lead me to believe the throttle blade has worn into the bore , like @WHX14 said, pull it ,box it and replace it with $20 aftermarket unit just be sure to study their pics for the correct style linkage, so far I've had pretty decent luck with them for dad's ole Cub Cadet Kohlers, the 6/7/8hp is 1 part#, the 10/12hp another and 14/16 another, Jeff.

[Achto 27,729]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

What do I need to do to clean up & resurface the engine block?

 

If you are not tearing the engine down completely then I would just clean it up good with a wire wheel on a drill and a wire brush. After you get as clean as you can with the wire wheel, spray it down with brake cleaner and blow it off with a blow gun to remove any oil residue. I repeat this process multiple times. 

 

If you are tearing the engine down completely, then I would degrease the block and sand blast it. After blasting, clean, clean, clean, no sand left behind. With this process I paint every thing before assembly.

 

I usually clean all of my cylinder heads up by blasting them with a glass bead media. 

[ebinmaine 68,156]

1 hour ago, Achto said:

not tearing the engine down completely then I would just clean it up good with a wire wheel on a drill and a wire brush. After you get as clean as you can with the wire wheel, spray it down with brake cleaner and blow it off with a blow gun to remove any oil residue. I repeat this process multiple times.

This is what will be happening for now.

 for your help!

 

 

I spent some time sanding the head down last night and tonight.

Started with 220 cuz that's what I had handy yesterday....... nope. Not happenin'....

 

Bought 100 and 150 today and went to work. sanded for a while with the 100 and it just wasn't going like I thought it should so I took a few minutes with the nasty stuff... 60.

 

Went back to 100 then to 150.

Pretty happy with the results.

 

2 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

 the throttle shaft the "square" punched hole looks very worn oversize to the machined flats, which would also lead me to believe the throttle blade has worn into the bore

I took another look at it tonight and I think it's gonna need to be replaced.

The throttle blade is looser than it should be... you're right.

I'll pop it off and figure out the right one.

Thanks Jeff.

 

[WHX?? 49,117]

3 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Eric, you know I'm a machinist at work, but from you video, where the linkage was "silver soldered" to the throttle shaft the "square" punched hole looks very worn oversize to the machined flats, which would also lead me to believe the throttle blade has worn into the bore , like @WHX14 said, pull it ,box it and replace it with $20 aftermarket unit just be sure to study their pics for the correct style linkage, so far I've had pretty decent luck with them for dad's ole Cub Cadet Kohlers, the 6/7/8hp is 1 part#, the 10/12hp another and 14/16 another, Jeff.

Agreed Jeffrey but if he wants to learn how to get by if not for monetary reasons but experience on repair then far be if from me to tell EB different. We all like to take a crack at it just for educational experience  if nothing else. Kudos  Eric but don't say we didn't warn you. 

Edited January 30, 2018 by WHX14

[ebinmaine 68,156]

7 hours ago, WHX14 said:

 .....We all like to take a crack at it just for educational experience  if nothing else......

Just to give you an idea how twisted my honey and are:

We installed 3 granite steps. 

Lower/base one is roughly 1750 lbs. Then 2 more, each a little smaller. 

 

ALL by hand. 

 

 

Poor quality pic because a lot of the work was done at night. 

This is the second step headed into place.

 

It was an incredible amount of work. .... and fun !!!

 

But I think I have to draw a line at this carb and wait for the next one. It's too worn in too many places. 

 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

Eric, I grew up the "Amish" way ,we still had draft horses and an Allis Chalmers B, plowed snow by dragging a wooden "V" plow behind horses or the "B"... Used to have dig rocks out with digging irons and drag them around my back can't take much now a days... now I'm spoiled with the hydro/hydraulics and FEL, and yes WE would fix anything/everything we could, if your carb hadn't been so worn I would told you have at it ,it's only original once, Jeff.

Edited January 30, 2018 by WVHillbilly520H

[ebinmaine 68,156]

I was able to get all four of the Phillips head screws out of the fan screen.

I've sprayed them with kroil five or six times over the last 4 days.

I knew I wasn't going to be able to get an impact driver till Friday or Saturday so...

Three times in three days I did sort of a makeshift impact screwdriver by finding a large, Phillips screwdriver that has metal all the way through the handle and fit the heads very well and banging on it with a hammer. Followed by more oil.

After repeating this process a few times over a few days, I put a slight twisting pressure on the screwdriver and kept hitting it with the hammer and they slowly started backing out. All four came out perfectly fine.

 

[PeacemakerJack 10,738]

Great ingenuity and determination Eric!  That rust penetrant really helps work miracles given enough time.  Then using the tools at your disposal, you got it done.  Way to overcome that obstacle...

[ebinmaine 68,156]

2 minutes ago, PeacemakerJack said:

Great ingenuity and determination Eric!  That rust penetrant really helps work miracles given enough time.  Then using the tools at your disposal, you got it done.  Way to overcome that obstacle...

Thanks Josh! But to give credit where it's due I should thank one of my fellow hiking friends. She is a metal worker and specialist in fabrication. Got the idea from her when I was trying to remove a fitting on the air compressor build up I did.

Edited January 30, 2018 by ebinmaine

[ebinmaine 68,156]

Spent more time this evening. 

Removed starter. Removed gear and cleaned & graphite lubed the shaft. Wire brushed Starter case, engine block. Reinstalled. 

 

Found this. .. behind starter case on block. ... part of a shim maybe???

 

 

 

Scraped engine head gasket surface with putty knife,  then wire brush. 

Ran a tap through all ten bolt holes. Vacuumed a bit. Cleaned off piston top. ... it's marked STD.

 

[ebinmaine 68,156]

On 1/29/2018 at 6:04 PM, WVHillbilly520H said:

Eric, you know I'm a machinist at work, but from you video, where the linkage was "silver soldered" to the throttle shaft the "square" punched hole looks very worn oversize to the machined flats, which would also lead me to believe the throttle blade has worn into the bore , like @WHX14 said, pull it ,box it and replace it with $20 aftermarket unit just be sure to study their pics for the correct style linkage, so far I've had pretty decent luck with them for dad's ole Cub Cadet Kohlers, the 6/7/8hp is 1 part#, the 10/12hp another and 14/16 another, Jeff.

Jeff 

I'm gonna order this later today... Do I just need to watch for the 14/16 hp size or are there other variables? 

 

Thanks again for the link to this. 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

Jeff 

I'm gonna order this later today... Do I just need to watch for the 14/16 hp size or are there other variables? 

 

Thanks again for the link to this. 

That (14/16hp), and make sure the linkages "look" the same as what you have, I got one for dad's CC not paying close attention to the pictures and I had to pull the linkage off the old one to put on the new one, that wouldn't benefit you any,  also a base gasket will be needed to, Jeff