Restoration of Ray's C141

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,353]

As promised in my New Shop Thread over in Non-Tractor Related Discussion, here is a thread to document the progress of my very special to me C141. For those of you who don't know the background story on this particular tractor, my good friend Ray purchased this tractor brand new with a mower deck and tiller attachment. Ray is the guy who first introduced me to the Wheel Horse brand, as they are not very common around here, we see more John Deere machines than anything. Ray used this tractor around his farmhouse for several years, but traded it to another good friend of his shortly after retiring and moving to town. After seeing my love for these little red tractors and my collection growing, he was able to get ahold of the friend who had the tractor, and work out a deal for me to purchase it from him. The mower deck has been gone for several years now, but I was able to purchase the tractor and tiller. This tractor will be strictly a show/parade machine, so the tiller is soon to be mounted on my worker C125 before spring. 

 

This is how the tractor came to me, minus the rear fenders, which are currently on the C125 until I can find another set for it

 

Muffler was in very sad shape, practically fell off in my hand when I grabbed ahold of it. Also was surprised that I didn't find all the engine tins completely packed with rat/mice nest, as this tractor has been sitting outside under a tree for the last 5 years.

 

Here is after the engine was removed, I have got to invest in a better way of lifting things around my shop. I can remember the day when picking up a K-Series by hand was nothing...not anymore...my shoulder hurt for two days after this step

 

Evidently at some point a battery has leaked all over this machine, the battery tray and parts of the hood stand are ate up with rust pretty bad in some places, will probably be looking for some of those parts off a parts tractor in the near future

 

Going to be needing some pulleys as well, I think every pulley on this thing is bent in at least one spot. And it sat outside with next to nothing left of the rubber shift boot for so long that is has some transmission issues. I pulled the dipstick when I first got it home, no oil, no water, only caked on layers of rust and scale. It was locked up, hence the black marks all over my fresh white floor. I have since got it to where the wheels will turn and it will shift into 3rd and reverse, but will not go into 1st or 2nd or shift between hi/lo. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions there when the time comes to open her up

 

Frame of the tractor seems to be in good solid shape, front axle pivot pin came out super easy and shows no signs of abnormal wear. Spindles are good where they go in the axle, not so much where the wheel slides on. This poor thing must have been ran for years with the front wheel bearings gone to cut that deep of a groove into the spindle. I will get better pics of that next time I'm over at the shop. Much to my surprise, the RH wheel hub slipped right off without the slightest bit of trouble, couldn't get that lucky with the LH one though, its been a week and still haven't gotten it off. 

 

And this is how she sets in my shop right now.

 

Sorry for the long winded post, there are about two weeks of work in this first post, tried to post from my phone the other night but was having trouble with it. Bought a new computer today so its much easier to post and upload pics now. Will update everyone as I make more progress. 

[ol550 830]

Looks like progress from here.  Need to get the floor broke in. Just dump some oil close to the center and see which way it runs before cleaning it up.

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,353]

Its already got a fresh oil stain on it...I knew when I painted it that the C125 would just love to mark its territory the day I pulled it in there 

 

[ebinmaine 68,874]

55 minutes ago, Professor1990 said:

Sorry for the long winded post,.......... Bought a new computer

No need to apologize for a long post... especially one with so many  !!!!

I too just bit the bullet and got a new PC.

 

I'll be happily following along with your progress here.

 

 

[953 nut 56,165]

      Glad to see some honest grime being applied to the newly pained floor.    

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,353]

Still fighting with one of the hubs on Ray's tractor, this thing has been getting soaked in PB Blaster (maybe not the best but I can get all of it I want free from work ), its been heated, and I've got about all the tension I can put on it with the puller without breaking anything. And it still refuses to budge. An old mechanic friend once told me every job has 7 curse words, trick is you gotta get them in the right order and things will fall together, I've cursed this thing with about every combination of words I can come up with and it still isn't coming offIf anyone here has any tips, tricks, or suggestions I'm open to hearing them.

 

Oh and my new shop helper Khaleesi wanted to say hi to everyone here on RedSquare

[ebinmaine 68,874]

Other than suggesting a reinforcing plate I  can't help you much on the hub. .. But the dog is adorable. 

 

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,353]

Been searching around and found this on YouTube, may try to fabricate one at work tomorrow and see how it goes

 

 

[953 nut 56,165]

45 minutes ago, Professor1990 said:

fighting with one of the hubs

The three jaw puller is likely to end up breaking your hub.

Use the other hub, five 3/8" by 5 or 6" bolts (not three like in the picture) and a 1" bolt and nut as a driver to make a puller.

[953 nut 56,165]

Here is another one using a bottle jack.

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,353]

Thank you for the ideas Richard, I may try the bottle jack idea after work tomorrow if I get in early enough, been putting in a lot of long hours the past few days. But that looks like it might just be the ticket I need to get this thing off. It's really holding up progress and I've got a lot of work to do if this thing is going to be done in time to try and bring it to the Big Show this year

[Zeek 2,286]

I used the below-pictured puller from Harbor Freight and a torch. Mine were a PAIN to get off. One word of caution . . . I was replacing all the transmission seals, so I didn't care what it did to the existing seals. Not that it will harm them, but you have to be careful how much heat the axle gets because I would think you could damage them..

 

[WHX?? 49,486]

I was going to chew your butt Bryce about the three jaw usage but I see you have been warned!  If you ask some other members if they have a spare scrap hub to make a puller I would bet they would send you one for shipping. There's a lot of them out ther with shot keyways.

Do a search here on hub pullers and you will find other creative ways the fellas  made one with stuff they had lying around.

Edited February 7, 2018 by WHX14

[ebinmaine 68,874]

12 hours ago, Professor1990 said:

Thank you for the ideas Richard, I may try the bottle jack idea after work tomorrow

I like that one too. Thanks for posting that Richard.

You already have the hub off of the other side so you could use that as your base and 5 rods instead of three.

Some point soon here I'm going to have to have a discussion with my C 160 about rear seals and that looks like it might be the way I go

[WHX?? 49,486]

4 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

5 rods instead of three.

Yes fer sure ..lessen your chances of snapping that cast. There will be some French to follow if you do... don't ask me how I know! Lots and lots of penetrant and lube down thru the setscrew hole.

[Sarge 3,464]

If you are trying to use a propane or Mapp gas torch to heat it , those really don't work very often unless it isn't stuck that badly . I always replace the axle seals - so the red/green wrench comes out as nothing else will heat a casting fast enough to break it loose, unless you can find a plumber that has one of the new induction heating coil units but those cost north of $3k.

 

I would not pull on the flange in any way - even with an acetylene torch and rose bud head I've had 2 hubs shatter using all 5 of the wheel mounting holes - they are too far away from center and if you flex the casting it's going to shatter. Best idea I've seen yet is the homebrew bar puller - it's putting all the force directly on the back of the hub but many are against the axle housing too tight to allow that , but still - a good idea if there is room. Best way I've found is a heavy bearing separator and a bar type pulling frame/screw setup - they will deliver the most force directly to the back of the hub where it needs to be delivered. I've had several that despite being soaked with Kroil it still took some serious heat , even with the bearing separator puller - that's a crazy amount of force to break loose a rust weld and one had a partially broken key to take that much force. Also have exploded one bearing separator frame in the press removing an axle hub - sometimes it's just better off cutting the dumb thing and replacing it or the entire axle if it's too bad versus a $75 tool . I have welded up badly worn keyways as well and cut new ones on several - there is always a way. Some take several different attempts but all the ideas are good ones - it just takes one of them to work and sometimes a bit of luck helps.

 

Good luck with it - patience counts but profanity at least helps your sanity.

 

Sarge

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,353]

3 hours ago, WHX14 said:

I was going to chew your butt Bryce about the three jaw usage but I see you have been warned!

I know that's not the best way to do it, but sometimes gotta work with what you have. I figured I would at least try it before I went to the trouble of building something else. Looks like it's not going to work, unless it has moved through the night as I left it under pressure, going to head over there in a bit and see. 

 

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

You already have the hub off of the other side so you could use that as your base and 5 rods instead of three.

 

If it hasn't moved under the pressure I left it under last night, I will probably run out to the farm and cut some pieces of all-thread to try this idea next.

 

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

- sometimes it's just better off cutting the dumb thing and replacing it 

 

 

If nothing else works to get it off, I am totally not opposed to cutting it off and replacing it, this stupid thing is really holding up my progress on this tractor, any other machine I wouldn't worry so much, but I'm needing to get this one done as soon as I can for more than a couple reasons. Not only am I planning on making the 1400 mile one way trip for the Big Show this year and bringing this tractor, but Ray's health is declining more and more every day. As much as I hate to say it, I fear he is not going to be around much longer and I would really love for him to be able to see this tractor finished. 

[Sarge 3,464]

If you were closer it would be off already - but I have probably more tools than anyone should own as well, lol. The type of puller I recommended can be rented at most auto parts stores - just inspect it first as many are returned broken or have stripped forcing screws, ect. Cheap way to do it without having to fork over the coin to own one.

 

Sarge

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,353]

Finally got the hub off (even using the other hub as a puller it still broke) so wound up cutting it off. Got the transmission opened up today...lots of rust and crud from sitting full of water for so long. But so far I think with a lot of cleaning and a few new bearings it can be saved

[ebinmaine 68,874]

Ugly as all get-out in there Bryce but you should be okay with a good cleaning.

 

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,353]

Definitely put that new workbench to use today, must admit I was a little nervous about opening her up, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I expected

[ebinmaine 68,874]

Find anything broken other than bearings?

 

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,353]

So far nothing besides a few froze up bearings, both outer axle bearings were frozen, one of them came out in pieces, and both 1533s are locked up, but other than that everything seems to be in pretty good shape, considering where this things been

[Pullstart 63,201]

Bryce, did you find any spare tins for Ray’s tractor?  Fender, battery box, etc...  I probably have whatever you need, I’ve parted two C-101’s out for other projects...

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,353]

1 hour ago, pullstart said:

Bryce, did you find any spare tins for Ray’s tractor?  Fender, battery box, etc...  I probably have whatever you need, I’ve parted two C-101’s out for other projects...

No I actually haven't looked real hard yet, I know pretty well everything from the battery box and below is pretty well rusted away...the fenders to this tractor are here, just currently residing on my C125, stuck them on there to see if I liked the looks of the metal fender pan on the black hood and just haven't gotten around to switching them back out yet. I will try to get over to the shop this weekend and get a better look at what pieces are rusted out beyond repair