My 856 Project

[ebinmaine 68,460]

As usual,  very impressive work. 

I don't have the answer to your brake pedal question by I'd like to remind you that there's only ONE stupid question. .... The one you did NOT ask. 

Thanks again for sharing. 

[Sarge 3,463]

I've never had a brake pedal that has more than one hole for the linkage rod...?

 

Sarge

[jebbear 377]

2 hours ago, Sarge said:

I've never had a brake pedal that has more than one hole for the linkage rod...?

I didn't understand this design either, kind of why I asked. It seems that any amount of adjustment by changing holes would be so minimal that it makes you wonder why it is even there. I would think that any adjustment could be adequately made on the opposite end of the rod where the threaded section is, along with the adjustment at the brake band. I thought maybe it was for different tractor applications, but then again, how much difference could it make. Just seems odd that the Wheel Horse engineers would put so many options in this area and left so many other things on the tractor that they could have provided for some type of adjustment.

[JPWH 6,101]

I always use the front hole. I'm short legs so the pedal is a little closer to me.

Jay

[jebbear 377]

Hey everyone, just wanted to let you all know that I am still vertical and still here. Had to put this project on the back burner for a while due to several other pressing issues that took priority. Good news is, you all haven't missed a thing on my restoration project, still about where I left off on prior posts. Got the lathe back up and running so that is out of the way. Hopefully in the very near future I can get this thing kick started again and make some progress. Finally, finally, finally the weather has decided to cooperate and anticipate getting some paint on a few pieces before long. Just wanted to touch base and will be sending up some more pics when I get something accomplished. I think I warned you all that I tend to work slow, especially when it comes to this multi-tasking stuff! Anyway, that's about all for now, more to come.

[ebinmaine 68,460]

Super Awesome!!!

[jebbear 377]

Well, I finally found some free time to get back into things a little. for the long hiatus and leaving things hanging the way I did, but other things just took priority for the last several months. I think I saw someone else post a while back about how they were working on the longest restoration project in history, but me thinks I might be in the running for that title myself . Anyway, as I said in the previous post, you guys (and gals) haven't really missed much. I've done a few little odds & ends on the project throughout the summer (and I do mean a few) but didn't have the opportunity to post any pics or even keep up with the forum for that matter, so I can catch you all up pretty quick as to where I'm at. I did finally get a chance to sling some paint on everything just last week and I'll post more on that later. But first, to pick up where I left off, here goes:

 

I believe that I was working on bushings and bearings in order to tighten things up a bit when I last posted, so here are a couple more of my "fixes". First, the upper steering shaft. I decided to eliminate the original nylon bushing in the cowl housing and replace with a bronze flange bearing as this has been a sore spot for me for quite a number of years. The play in this thing has always been beyond excessive as you can see by the wear in the shaft:

 

The only reamer that I have for this size hole is an adjustable one which is not the ideal tool of choice for this type of work, so I rigged up this little jig to keep the reamer in alignment while I SLOWLY and CAREFULLY bored the casting to accept the bearing. Took a while, but it actually worked out quite well when finished:

 

I mentioned in an earlier post about also placing a bronze flange bearing in the link hole of the brake/clutch pedal. Here is a pic of the installed bearing:

 

And finally, the little linkage arm for the attachment clutch was totally worn out, so I just made a new one and pressed a couple of bronze bearings in the link holes:

 

I also made a few other modifications and added some bearings back around some of the clutch and brake assembly, but just realized I forgot to take any pics. I will post some photos, however, when I get to the re-assembly phase of these pieces just to keep everyone up to date.

 

It's getting pretty late now, so hopefully tomorrow I can post a few more of my little fabrications and fixes, then slide into some of the prep work and repairs for the painting portion. Again, sorry for the long delay and sorry for not keeping up with everyone else's posts on the forum. Its been a crazy last few months for me. Hopefully I haven't totally lost all of my following on this project and you all still have some interest in the outcome.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by jebbear

[ebinmaine 68,460]

Great to see you back!!

I'm still very much looking forward to the the rest of this project !

 

[Pullstart 63,103]

I think you gained following, I noticed I was catching up from March and May posts!  Great work you’re making regardless of time!  Keep it up, when you can of course!

[PeacemakerJack 10,739]

Glad to see that you haven’t lost interest in the project.  I totally understand having to take some time to take care of other more important things in life for awhile.  That is one cool thing about these little machines, if you have to, you can walk away from them for awhile and then come back to them and continue on the resto/refurbish.  

 

looking good so far!

[jebbear 377]

Nothing new to post from yesterday, so in order to play "catch up", here are a few more pics of several of the body panels and the hoodstand prior to and including some of the prep work for painting.

 

Belt guard, no real issues, just basically needs sanded and prepped:

 

Rear fender assembly, has a lot of pitting from rust on top surface, but no actual holes and still a lot of base metal. I pretty much didn't do a lot of repair in this area since the seat will cover all of these flaws, only the visible spots. Just a couple more dings, a little more bodywork in a few spots, and complete strip to bare metal in the pitted section and pre-primed with an etching primer.

 

The underside on the other hand needed a little repair work. The horizontal seat support was completely fatigue cracked through one of the bumper holes. Rather than remove and replace the whole piece, I decided to just fabricate and add another layer of metal and brazed the two together. I figured it cracked once, so hopefully with the extra layer, thicker is hopefully better and provide additional support. I did need to find substitute rubber bumpers to compensate for the additional thickness, but I was successful in locating what I hope will work on a website that carries a lot of various rubber parts.

 

Next, the hood assembly. Basically solid except for a few dings and some bent grille louvers. Put my amateur body repair skills to work again, hammered out what I could, and then good old Bondo. It actually came out pretty good and will post completed photos when I get around to the reassembly. (You're probably all thinking that will be in about two years at the rate I'm moving! ) One thing you may notice is the hood ornament, not original. When I first acquired the tractor eons ago, the previous owner had removed the original one and installed this little eagle thingy with spread wings. It looked nice, but was not the least bit practical as it was constantly catching on low hanging tree limbs during mowing and was nothing but a nuisance. I had removed this way back on my prior rebuild back in the 1980's. Not knowing what ever happened to the original, I fabricated this one back then out of a piece of solid aluminum that I had, draw filing, sanding, and polishing into the one you see. It's not perfect, nor totally original, but I will probably re-use this one again mainly for nostalgia since it kind of represents some of my earlier hand crafting skills (or lack thereof ).

 

Finally, the hoodstand assembly. This also required a few repairs prior to what I could hide with the paint. A couple of the belt guard threaded mounting bracket thing-a-ma-jigs  had broken off and required fabrication and replacement, and also a couple of the spot welds on the threaded inserts for the dash assembly came loose. Since I don't have any type of spot welder, I just brazed all of these pieces back on. Also, note on the top rail surface where the fender assembly has been rubbing for decades (lack of the aforementioned rubber bumpers and split crosspiece), there was a slot worn into the rails. Don't think it was really hurting anything as there was still a lot of metal left in the rails, but it was just one of those things that bothered me to look at. So again, out came the brazing torch and I filled and filed these grooves to a smooth surface. I didn't want to use anything like Bondo in this area as it would never last if any more rubbing occurred. Again, I was well pleased with the results of how it turned out. Also of note is the reamed hole in the vertical side panel casting which I had mentioned in an earlier post, to accept installation of a bronze flange bearing for the lift arm assembly.

 

That's about all for now, more to come later.

[WHX?? 49,182]

Yes glad to see your back at it! These things do sometimes take a back seat to life! Dan @Achto says he gets tunnel vision on these restos and just goes at it like a madman till it's done! I would too till the wife whips out the honey do list.

Your work is like deja vu as I did many of the exact same things you are doing!  Keep up the good work  

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by WHX21

[The Tuul Crib 7,337]

 All I can say is what a great story this was of how this tractor came to be in your  possession Will be following this one.  Here's a pic of my 855 I just restored 

Edited November 7, 2018 by The Tool Crib

[jebbear 377]

Looks like a very nice restore there Tool Crib. Looks like your 855 is identical to my 856, didn't change much in a year.

[jebbear 377]

6 hours ago, WHX21 said:

...till the wife whips out the honey do list. 

I can relate to that!! That's been part of what I have been up against this summer, only the "honey do list" has been more like a "Git er Done or else..." list.

 

Anyway, here are a couple more pics of the painting operation. This is what I am using for the primer:

 

And the paint (note the date how long ago when I had this stuff mixed):

 

I know there has been a lot of discussion on here as to paints and colors, and realize a lot of it just comes down to personal preference. I'll just add my and say that I am extremely satisfied with the red that I chose. I'll have to say that when I compared it to a couple of parts I had with OEM paint, including areas of my tractor such as under the Model/Serial tag, under the engine tag, and even under some of the removed decals, this is a VERY close match to original.

 

Dad's garage, my makeshift paint shop:

 

As for the painting, since I have been up against it this summer and didn't have time to get any painting done until now, I had to take over my Dad's garage and basement due to temps averaging in the 50's. I had originally planned on doing all of this outside and using my storage building for the curing, but since it is not heated, my Dad offered the use of his facilities. Thank-You Dad, you really bailed me out! I basically had everything hanging on the wires and ready to go in his basement, then carried each individually to the garage to prime (repeat process for paint on a subsequent day), then back to the warm basement to re-hang and cure. A lot of running back and forth, especially when this stuff doesn't have a real long pot life once activated. Anyway, long story short, that is all behind me now as everything is all primed and painted. I did actually run a little short on the paint and did not get the rear hitch stuff and a couple of the tach-a-matic brackets done. But as I mentioned earlier in this post, I have not even begun Phase 2, which is the mower deck and a whole separate project, so I can hit these at that time when I get more paint. I do want to add that I am far from a professional painter and ended up with a couple of minor runs and a few dust specks here and there, but overall I think it came out pretty good all things considered. I doubt if anyone will see my flaws except for me, but I guess that I'm my own worst critic. Besides, as I mentioned back when I began this thing, she is going to be a work horse anyway & I'm sure will probably end up with a few new flaws before I'm done!

 

I didn't really have time to take any photos of the "Wheel Horse laundry" hanging to dry, but I'm sure you guys having done your own restores have seen plenty of that . I'm just glad to be past the headache, LITERALLY, cause I can't begin to tell you all how many times I kept banging my head on all of the hanging pieces! And I even knew they were there!

 

That pretty much catches me up to where I'm at now, short of the couple of things I tinkered with this week. I'll get these posted real soon, once i get some more photos and then start into the reassembly.

 

 

[WHX?? 49,182]

I just started a 1055 project and would like to get a cheapy HF gun and try painting like that. Rattle cans are getting old but yes problems with finding a place to paint. Can't do it in the heated garage as the Mrs would go ballistic about the overspray and now too cold to paint outside. Might have to rig up a spray booth of some kind. I have a ways to go before final paint anyway. Going to do a full mockup first to make sure no brackets need to be welded on or mods done and everthing fits as should. Do need to get bare metal primed as to avoid flash rust. Contemplating having the frame & lower carriages powder coated yet as well.

[jebbear 377]

I totally agree @WHX21, painting is my least favorite part of this whole process. Without having a paint booth set up for this, getting the weather to cooperate outdoors, overspray, dust-free environment, along with the general pain of cleanup of equipment and the paint area afterwards can really cause some grief. As far as rattle can painting, I find it is the most convenient, but I'm not really sold on the end results all of the time. I am having some issues with this as we speak, because I decided to paint my rims with a rattle can. Maybe some of you guys can give me some tips or advice as to what I have encountered.

 

Here is my problem. I am using Rustoleum in Almond for the rims, bought the Professional grade in the larger cans. I stripped them all down, pretty much to bare metal in most areas and used their etching primer lightly in the bare areas. No issues so far.

 

Painted the front rims a while back, came out good with no issues:

 

However, the rear ones have been nothing but grief and aggravation and have tried my patience to the limit. Here are the rear rims, one on the left is original, one on the right after the spraying with the etching primer:

Then I used a can of the Professional Rustoleum primer first, all seemed OK. Then after a couple of days (the can says wait 48 hours), I top coated with the almond. After about 10 minutes, the entire paint started to wrinkle up, it was horrible . Couldn't do anything with it but wait, then resanded and wet sanded both of them down all over again. Tried again and also took extra care in cleaning well and only touched with rubber gloves, etc. I couldn't believe it, but same thing all over again, not quite as bad but still unacceptable. By this time I'm fuming so I even called Rustoleum for help. They didn't really give any answers only to try and keep the coats a little lighter and obey the cure times (which I thought I did) and they are supposedly sending me a refund for the paint wasted. So here I go all over again, wet sanding everything, this time trying to remove ALL of the almond down to the primer. I also did a little research on the web and found that I am not alone with this problem.

 

So here is my analysis, to which I am pretty sure to 99% certainty as to what is going on. This is the wrinkle issue:

 

Near as I can tell, I believe the problem is the underlying coats never seem to totally cure and are releasing some of the uncured solvent which reacts to the top layers. I think the primer layer is the primary culprit because this is what I found when I wet sanded the paint down to the primer layer:

Looks like part of my brain matter which I lost from all of this grief. Could be true that it may have gone on a little heavy in spots because these rims are not like a flat surface and its hard to manipulate a large spray can down inside the rim to keep it perfectly uniform so I'm sure there are heavy areas. But I didn't encounter a single "run" anywhere so I can't imagine it is excessively heavy. Another thing I noticed, during the wet sanding, I could really smell the volatiles or solvents that were being released even after all of this time.

 

I don't know what to try next, does anyone have any suggestions or have you all ever encountered this? I'm pretty sure this is what is happening, but how do I ever get this stuff to cure out to where it can be top coated without having to wait for weeks? Even on the can, it says "primers may be topcoated Immediately. Apply a second coat or topcoat within one hour or after 48 hours". Should I try the regular Rustoleum (not the Professional) in the smaller can, since according to Rustoleum the Professional has a higher output nozzle and distributes more solids? Would there be any difference if I bought a Quart can, thinned with acetone as per the label, and shot it with my spray gun since I seem to do better personally with a gun? Is there some type of "sealer/primer" that could be used to isolate what is already there? Would it make any difference to assist curing with a hair dryer or even putting it in a WARM oven for a while as long as I don't tell my wife ? Will this stuff EVER cure as I really HATE to strip everything all of the way back to bare metal and start all over again and possibly end up with the same result? If I have to go this route, it won't be Rustoleum.

 

As I mentioned, I'm NOT a painter. So any of you guys that are painters and know way more about this stuff than me, PLEASE chime in with some advice. Not sure if I can or should for that matter, re-post this query in another thread on the Home page under general discussion possibly to receive more input from others since my questions are buried deep in this restoration thread to which I am sure many are not following? I know, rambling again and a lot of questions. Please    ,Thanks.

Edited November 8, 2018 by jebbear
Forgot to attach Pic.

[ebinmaine 68,460]

Don't mind the Ramblin. We have to get all of our thoughts straight and sometimes it takes more than 5 or 10 words.

 

I think you're on the right track with believing that it is the primer layer that is the culprit.

 

I am not by a long shot an expert painter so I'll let the others chime into what your actual solution should be but I think you have already stated it and just don't want to deal with it.... And I don't blame you. I wouldn't want to either.

 

The safest thing for you to do in my humble opinion is to completely remove everything that is on those Wheels which is probably going to involve something like excellent solvent or electrolysis tank.

Trina is the one who is the painter in our house about 99% of the time on tractors and on everything else. She just has a better eye for it and much much better hand--brain-eye coordination than I do.

Over the last couple of years we have switched over to using Rust-Oleum 2x paint.

As far as spray paint goes... she now refuses to use anything else. If it doesn't come in that color, it doesn't get painted.

 

We also do not use a primer coat. She finds that paint is solid enough with three or four light to medium coats that it does not need a primer.

I should Express right here that long-term results are unknown because we just started doing this a couple years ago as I said.

 

 

 

I'll be waiting to see what the others say...

[WHX?? 49,182]

Been ther done that on the wrinkle thing Jeb. Not 100% but I thought my issue was something in the metal that was causing this. One thing for sure it's not the paint.  I have all my pieces sand blasted then blow off and wipe down with lacquer thinner to try and remove any remaining grease or oil. Seems to have helped so it's gotta have something to do with prep. Thing I can't figure is the primer goes on great. Dan @Achto and others here are pro painters so they will chime in and help us rookies!

[Achto 27,818]

4 hours ago, jebbear said:

 

Near as I can tell, I believe the problem is the underlying coats never seem to totally cure and are releasing some of the uncured solvent which reacts to the top layers. I think the primer layer is the primary culprit because this is what I found when I wet sanded the paint down to the primer layer:

 

What you have going on is called lifting. Your top coat is actually breaking down your primer causing it to lift off of the metal. Basically a bad chemical reaction. Know that your paint has made the primer lift, the absolute best way to fix it is to take every thing back down to bare metal. Sucks I know, but it is the best way. Next step would be to extend your cure time on the primer, again this sucks when your trying to get something done. Painting is a game of patients, specially when use a strait enamel like Rustoleum. Acrylic enamels are a little less harsh & have faster dry times so things can move a little faster.

 

They're making me go home from work  so I will get into this a little more when I get home. 

[ebinmaine 68,460]

55 minutes ago, Achto said:

Next step would be to extend your cure time on the primer

I've read some place and heard of people that have had to let primer cure for 3 or 4 weeks

[Achto 27,818]

OK back to my tutorial. Your issue had nothing to do with your surface prep. Just for giggles I sprayed a piece of metal that I rubbed with a little oil, to demonstrate "fish eye" a problem that occurs from poor surface prep. "Fish eye" is when the paint separates causing open spots where the paint will not cover. You can see this in the pic below. No matter how much paint you dump on the part these spots will open back up.

 

Now back to your issue.

 

Your primer & paint were not yet ready to get along. Here are some options to try

1. Like I said a longer cure time on the primer will help, forget what the can says & give the primer a week in a warm environment to fully cure. Also like the guys at Rustoleum said lighter coats of paint will help. If the paint goes on too wet it will have a chance to soak into the primer & may cause the issue again.

 

2. Next option: try wet on wet. Take a scrap piece of metal to experiment with and prime it, as soon as the primer flashes (looks dull) spray a coat of paint on it to see if it lifts. If it doesn't, spray another coat of paint when it's ready. If this works out then this may be a viable route for you.

 

Another note: How do you know when to add the next coat of paint? Dry times printed on the can are just a guide line. Here is a fool proof way to tell. Pick a spot that will not be seen and touch it with your finger. The paint should be tacky like tape but should not stick to your finger. If the paint color transfers to your finger it is not ready for the next coat.

 

3. Change to a lacquer primer, (if you can find some in a spray can). Lacquer primer is much less likely lift under the enamel and the cure time is a lot shorter.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Achto

[WHX?? 49,182]

Helps a lot Dan thanks ... Some day when you got absolutely nothing better to do, yah right like that's gonna happen, you should do a primer (pun intended) on painting techniques! 

[jebbear 377]

Thank-You to everyone for the input.We are very fortunate on here that we have available all of the talent and expertise that you all are willing to share. hopefully some day I can return the favor(s).

 

I guess I kind of knew what was inevitable (strip to bare metal), just didn't want to accept it. If it were not for the fact that I have the fronts done with tires mounted, I would switch to something else besides Rustoleum cuz I'm not to happy with their product right now ( I know, it is really me not the paint). @Achto what do you think of the idea of using Rustoleum so I can match the color, but switching to a quart can and applying with the spray gun? The Rustoleum says to thin with acetone to spray, not sure what they use in their rattle cans for solvent. At least with a gun, I seem to have  a little more control with amount of fluid and air pressure, whereas, with these so called Rustoleum Professional spray cans, the stuff really comes blasting out and hard, at least for me, to apply on a wheel. As for primer, I also considered using more of what I used on the tractor (the Nason 2K Select Prime) since I need to get some more anyway for when I get around to doing the mower deck. Would this be compatible with Rustoleum? Or would it just be better to go with what you said about trying a lacquer primer, as it would be a lot easier since I don't have good painting facilities this time of year? Was the etching primer a good idea, or necessary on the bare metal, it actually seemed to work rather well? I know, lots of questions, but I really appreciate all of the help.

[Achto 27,818]

10 hours ago, jebbear said:

@Achto what do you think of the idea of using Rustoleum so I can match the color, but switching to a quart can and applying with the spray gun?

 

I think that switching to Rustoleum from a qt can is a great idea. Switching to the Nason 2K primer is a most excellent idea. This is my primer of choice on my sheet metal parts, a good high build primer that will take out imperfections and will never shrink under the paint. This primer should work great with the paint. Prime your rims with self etching primer, follow up with the 2K after the etching primer flashes, let them set up (over night should be fine), wet sand & paint. This would be the process that I would use.

 

Lacquer primer will work also but the 2K is a more durable primer.

 

I recommend self etching primer for sure. It actually eats into the metal & gives your primer better adhesion, plus its high zinc content helps prevents rust.

 

10 hours ago, jebbear said:

( I know, it is really me not the paint)

 

Don't feel bad about this, I don't have much luck with Rusto spray bombs either. I just don't have the patients for them I guess.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Achto