My 856 Project

[ebinmaine 68,464]

6 hours ago, jebbear said:

Rustoleum cuz I'm not to happy with their product right now ( I know, it is really me not the paint

 

5 hours ago, Achto said:

don't have much luck with Rusto spray bombs either. I just don't have the patients for them I guess.

 

Quite true.

Spray cans really are a different science than a proper gun altogether.

I wish I had the skills and tools for the full size air guns. Likely a future investment for us.

 

I too have that lack of patience.

That's why I originally stopped using primer and switched over to 2X.

We're not at all trying for a show grade long term finish.

I'm assuming our machines will last 3 to 5 years before needing a repaint.

Time will tell.

 

It's awesome that folks are so willing to share knowledge and experience here!!!

 

 

[jebbear 377]

11 hours ago, Achto said:

Don't feel bad about this, I don't have much luck with Rusto spray bombs either. I just don't have the patients for them I guess.

Totally agree. Maybe the Rusto folks should change their cans to say Re-coat after 48 days, not 48 hours. After seeing what happened to me, I don't think this stuff EVER sets up.

 

5 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

It's awesome that folks are so willing to share knowledge and experience here!!!

Eric, I can't say this enough. Since joining this site, I have found everyone here to be a GREAT bunch of people!!

 

@Achto I am leaning toward your suggestion of the Nason 2K primer and the quart of Rustoleum. The only downside is lack of a facility to do the spraying this time of year. Hopefully we might get a couple of decent days where I can do the spray outside, carry inside deal. I guess both will require the aforementioned "patience", since I either wait for paint to cure or wait for the weather to cooperate. I will definitely repeat the etching primer, I totally agree with your comment on same. Thank-You again for all of your excellent comments and suggestions, they are all greatly appreciated.

[jebbear 377]

OK, while I'm patiently waiting for the proverbial paint to dry , back to the tractor. Again, I am looking for some help or a suggestion on something I didn't catch earlier on but hoping there is an easy fix. Since it is transmission related, @stevasaurus this may be a good one for you to comment on.

 

After getting everything painted, I started playing around putting a few loose parts back together. My issue is with the brake drum on the tranny, there seems to be a slight amount of excessive play where it mounts on the shaft. I read on here where others have had problems removing this thing, mine is just the opposite. I installed a new woodruff key, but it still just slides on with no resistance and even has an ever so slight "wiggle" on the shaft. I miked both the shaft and the drum, the shaft is dead on at 1.000", while the drum varies slightly at different cross-sections in the hole with the worst being out 1.003". Not very much but still not a tight fit. The new woodruff key also does not fit perfectly snug in either piece. Without any set screw holding this thing other than the retaining ring, the drum is able to slide back and forth on the shaft between the case and the retainer. I wish I would have caught this earlier when working on the tranny, but not seeing any visible sign of wear at the time no flags went up. So my question, is there some type of material (loctitie, etc.) that can be used to "tighten" this up, but has to be something I can remove later if need be? If I knew for certain that a new brake drum would help, I would go that route, but the ever so slight wiggle in the woodruff key concerns me if it happens to be coming from the shaft slot. Also thought about placing a machine bushing washer between the case and the drum to limit the side travel and still maintain a few thousandths end play, but that still won't address the keyway wiggle. Looking for recommendations, Thanks!

[stevasaurus 22,881]

I think just last week, I was reading a thread where the member talked about the brake drum being out of round and some other issues.  I tried looking for it, but was not successful.  Maybe someone else here read it and knows where it is.  Anyway, I am not sure if what you have is a big deal...I am inclined to think the tolerance of this from the factory was not one of the major things they worried about.  The only place I actually use the brake is on a hill, and there are no hills in Illinois. 

   Seriously, you could get a different key, that is a little larger, and file it down to a snug fit.  That could help the wobble.  A brass shim would take out the in and out slack.  Are you sure the bearing is good...no up and down and side to side??  You could drill it out and use a brass bearing that is slit for the key.  If you have other horses, or know someone around you...you could try different brake drums and see if that makes a difference.  I am no machinist, maybe @buckrancher can help you here.  

[jebbear 377]

Thanks Steve, I'm not sure it's a real big deal either because it has probably been this way for some time now. I just figured it would only get worse in time with the thing constantly moving back and forth from braking because unfortunately here in PA we do have hills . The bearing is brand new along with all others from rebuilding the transmission (with a lot of thanks to you for your prior assistance) so that should not be the issue. I have even heard of others that have used J-B Weld for keyway and shaft issues and thought about maybe trying to just putting a thin coating inside of the drum hole and just sanding it until I get a snug fit on the shaft. I just don't want to glue the drum to the shaft though since removal would be impossible, so I could only apply it to one of the surfaces then try to wedge it on to a snug fit. I think I may still add a machine washer between the case and the drum because there is currently approx 1/8" side travel as is, so I can at least get this down to a few thousandths of end play which should help alleviate some of the movement.

[jebbear 377]

While I'm on here, I also want to throw out there a couple of "in search of" things that someone may have a source for. I am looking for one of the original little rivet thingys that holds the serial # tag on the Kohler engine...

I am only missing one and would prefer to keep it looking as original as possible. Anyone know where to find ONE of these?

 

Also, looking for ONE of the rubber rollers (OEM Part #5505) that goes on the hood latch rod mechanism. There are (2) and one of mine looks perfect, however, the other is kind of worn down smaller diameter and egg shaped. May not even be a big deal since the hood seemed to latch OK, but since it looks worn I figured now is the time to replace it.

Found one on Fleabay for 5 bucks, but he wants 8 more bucks to ship it. Seems a little steep for something that could be thrown in an envelope with a stamp.

[ebinmaine 68,464]

32 minutes ago, jebbear said:

may still add a machine washer between the case and the drum because there is currently approx 1/8" side travel as is, so I can at least get this down to a few thousandths of end play which should help alleviate some of the movement.

 

I don't know that I would want to try the J-B Weld trick in this particular situation.

I don't think the pulley being loose on the shaft is too serious of an issue.

The end play would bother me a  bit.

I like the idea of getting rid of that.

I also like the idea that Steve had about getting a slightly larger key and machining it down to get a tighter fit.

[Pullstart 63,107]

Maybe lock tite medium, but not jb weld...

[stevasaurus 22,881]

You know, and this is pretty Polish (no offense intended)...Maybe a little flux, some heat on the end of the shaft and melt a little solder with the drum on.  The solder should not meld with the steel, but it might work to shim it tight and you could still get the drum off.   

don't heat it too much...not good for the seal. 

[oliver2-44 9,875]

Lock-Tite 660 Is made for “Cylindrical Gap Filling” applications like this.  I have used it and the part is removable with a little heat.  

[jebbear 377]

1 hour ago, stevasaurus said:

Maybe a little flux, some heat on the end of the shaft and melt a little solder

That's an idea. Wonder about just the opposite, apply just a thin layer to the inside of the drum then get the old reamers out to dress the solder. Then heat wouldn't be a factor with the seals but it would destroy my paint on the drum center . Could actually even do the key slot lightly then dress with a file. One good thing with solder, as long as I can keep it thin and get it started onto the shaft, the solder would be "self dressing".

16 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

Lock-Tite 660 Is made for “Cylindrical Gap Filling”

I saw mention of this stuff when I was doing my own research on the net. Also sounded like a viable option, just wasn't sure about how much heat is required for removal. Same concern as above with the seals & such when applying heat.

 

Thanks, both of you for the input. Not sure yet what route to take. Wish I knew someone close that had a different drum just to try before actually buying one because that would be the simple fix.

Edited November 10, 2018 by jebbear

[stevasaurus 22,881]

There will be a ton of brake drums at the big show in June.  You should be able to try them all day and switch with the one that works.   

[jebbear 377]

1 hour ago, stevasaurus said:

There will be a ton of brake drums at the big show in June

That is probably what I'm going to end up doing, just hope I can make it this year. Had every intention of going to the show last year but my summer didn't quite turn out the way I planned.

 

Upon deeper inspection it does look like my drum is the culprit.

As I had mentioned, I'm only looking at only about 0.003" wear and and the shaft is dead on at 1.000" diameter. If you can see it in the photo, there is a distinct wear area adjacent to the keyway on both sides. Not really sure how it wore this way so uniformly on both sides of the keyway other than it has probably been loose for some time and from the constant sliding, but I can feel the offset along that little rib. So I believe replacement is in the stars. For now just as an experiment, I might just try my idea of putting a little J-B Weld on my finger and putting a skin coat over this area, then maybe take a brake hone or something similar to dress it back to where it will slide on the shaft. Nothing to lose I guess but I probably will still look at replacement.

[jebbear 377]

So, between the paint issue on the rims and the unexpected glitch with the brake drum, I still have a tractor to reassemble. So here goes:

 

Started with the frame and the new retrofit bronze flange bearing in the lower steering shaft (front).

Since this cross member on the frame is only about 1/4" thick, I added a little extra bracket that I had fabricated as a retainer just to make sure the bearing stays in place. I used the (2) existing holes that were already in the frame that were not being used on my tractor (some other model/application?) and attached with two bolts:

 

Next was the front axle with the new pivot pin that I had previously fabricated (see earlier in this post):

 

Then bolted up the transmission to the frame:

 

One noteworthy item. You may notice that I'm building this in a carpeted area which happens to be in the basement. Due to my late start ( or should I say "re" -start) with this project, this is the only heated area that I have to work in. I originally planned on completing this project out in the large storage building/garage where the tractors are kept, but since in my older age I enjoy HEAT, this is the improvised assembly line. I did a lot of measuring and I "THINK" I can get it out the basement door when done. Worse case, I know it will fit if I have to remove the wheels/tires, but will then need to improvise some type of sled or dolly to roll the thing. I guess if the Egyptians could build the pyramids, I can figure out a way to get this thing through a door!

 

Anyway, still moving slow just doing a little bit at a time, but at least a few bolts are going back ON now instead of coming OFF!!

[ebinmaine 68,464]

4 hours ago, jebbear said:

did a lot of measuring and I "THINK" I can get it out the basement door when done. Worse case, I know it will fit if I have to remove the wheels/tires, but will then need to improvise some type of sled or dolly to roll the thing

You may also consider removing the door from it's homes by the pond.

That'll give you another inch plus in doorway width.

 

 

4 hours ago, jebbear said:

moving slow just doing a little bit at a time, but at least a few bolts are going back ON now instead of coming OFF!!

Excellent !!!!

[WHX?? 49,189]

I like your attention to detail here and I may have very well missed this Jeb but what is you end use for this tractor, trailer queen or worker or in between? I wouldn't worry about the brake drum slop. Like Oliie said some loctite 600 may work just fine or some loctite red . Might mean some heat does it have to come off but the seal is an easy replace too. I'm not fond of your JB weld idea ...I have never had much luck with it in areas like this. 

Your paint looks choice 

[jebbear 377]

Thanks for the compliments guys. I'll get it out the door one way or another, Eric. Kind of reminds me like Gibbs on NCIS building a boat in his basement!

25 minutes ago, WHX21 said:

what is you end use for this tractor

She is going to still be a work horse, or somewhere in between. The days of mowing multiple acres are over for this one, but still plan on mowing around the yards, etc. I also have a snow plow for when it gets too deep. As far as the heavy duty work, I have one of those "green" diesel machines with a 5' belly mower for the heavy acreage that this one used to cut years ago.

Still haven't made up my mind on the brake drum, just kicking around ideas. One good thing about the drum, that's a real easy piece to have access to for switching out or experimenting with. That's kind of why I considered the J-B Weld idea, because even if it doesn't work, its no big deal to pop it off and try something else. Might not even do anything for now and possibly pursue just getting another one at some point. I just don't want to run it too long this way, because I would like to keep the damage confined to the drum and not start tearing up the shaft which seems to be OK at this point.

42 minutes ago, WHX21 said:

Your paint looks choice

Thanks. Like I said before, I'm no painter and believe me, there are a few flaws and did find a couple of "holidays" that I missed when spraying. My eyesight just isn't what it used to be. I don't think they are bad enough though that I need to worry about the astronauts on the space station laughing at anyway!

[jebbear 377]

A couple more updates on the frame & related. Pressed in my retrofit bronze flange bearings for the clutch idler shaft at the rear of the frame.

 

Had to make a little jig out of a block of wood to keep the reamer in alignment when reaming the bearings to 0.500" for the shaft.

 

...And the idler shaft. Fits like a glove, but I have not permanently installed yet as things still need a little tweeking on the pivot arm, parking brake assembly, and brake linkages opposite the pulley end. Installed a new idler pulley on the shaft that I found on fleabay since the old one had a lot of slop in the bearings. I had originally tried to repair my old pulley by separating and just replacing the ball bearings, but nobody including McMaster Carr or Motion Industries seemed to have the exact fit to what I had measured from the original bearings which were Nice 7277-3 bearings. Found a couple that were very close & may have worked, but this NOS complete pulley popped up so I went for it.

[jebbear 377]

OK, while I'm patiently waiting for the weather to cooperate to get back to painting the rims, I have a quick question in preparation for the rear tires. I have read some discussion on here concerning tubes vs. tubeless tires. I have basically decided to re-use my old tires since this tractor will continue to be a work horse. Although showing some minor signs of of dry rot cracking, I don't believe that it is severe enough to warrant new tires and can probably get many more years of service out of my old ones. Therefore, I am looking into placing tubes in same and continue to use them. My question, it doesn't seem to be possible to buy any reputable "namebrand" tubes anymore as apparently everything (at least what I have found) seems to be made in China or Korea (even the Firestone brand). You guys that have purchased and have some experience with inner tubes, which ones seem to be of better quality and have the best longevity after using for a while? Or is there any difference, and just look for the best price deal? I don't have an issue with paying a little more for quality, but don't want to pay more and basically get the same product regardless of which brand I purchase. Thanks.

[Pullstart 63,107]

I’ve tubed 6 tires with the cheapest I could find on eBay, they haven’t let me down yet!  4 of the 6 are full of used antifreeze.

[WHX?? 49,189]

 All I use is the cheapies too.. figure in get a year or three done good. Picked up a "pro grade" pair from a tire shop once cause I was in a bind and they were no better than fleabay cheapies. Paid twice as much too. I think they seen me coming! 

[jebbear 377]

Thanks for the replies guys. That is sort of what I figured that there is probably no difference (other than $$) from what I saw. I forgot to mention above, my fronts already had tubes in them, been there for years (decades?) and they were Goodyears. Apparently not available anymore, closest I found to namebrand were the Firestones, which as I said were made in China like all the rest. Carlisle tires seem to get pretty good ratings overall, and saw I think it was fleabay that Carlisle also offered a set of (2) tubes for the rears, 23 x 9.50 - 12 for somewhere around $30 for both & free shipping. I'm also considering filling with ballast (antifreeze, etc.) as years ago on this same tractor the previous owner (from back in the 1960's) had the rears filled with calcium or whatever they used then, and ran this way for years until one of the old original "Wheel Horse" tires totally blew out. It does make a significant difference on the hills that we have here with the extra ballast. Thanks for the input!

[ebinmaine 68,464]

25 minutes ago, jebbear said:

considering filling with ballast

Absolutely do this.

Huge difference as you well know.

Many variations available.

I have rimguard in mine.

Processed beet juice.

At nearly 11 pounds per gallon it's heavier than all but calcium.

 

[jebbear 377]

Thanks Eric. Wasn't sure what all they used these days for ballast.

[ebinmaine 68,464]

4 minutes ago, jebbear said:

Thanks Eric. Wasn't sure what all they used these days for ballast.

Lots of guys on this particular website use RV antifreeze or washer fluid.

Both work fine but I can get Rimguard here in Maine for about the same price.

RV antifreeze and 20 below washer fluid are both apparently gold-plated beyond the New Hampshire border.