What have you done to your Wheel Horse today?

[squonk 41,155]

56 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Replacing the head gasket helps that?

That's one cause...among others.

[ebinmaine 67,628]

7 minutes ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

That’s what the more experienced guys say... you gotta clean off all the old carbon build up really good.

I ask because when we had the K341 apart we did decarbonize and of course new gasket. 

When you shut it down it backfires unless the throttle is immediately opened full. 

It's the only engine we have that does it. 

[lynnmor 7,308]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

I ask because when we had the K341 apart we did decarbonize and of course new gasket. 

When you shut it down it backfires unless the throttle is immediately opened full. 

It's the only engine we have that does it. 

 

Did you try slowing the idle down?

[Horse Newbie 7,075]

2 hours ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

As my grand pappy used to say, much gooder 

@KrazeyOlDave  Is that an aluminum head ?

And how did you clean it...wire brush ?

Edited November 21, 2020 by Horse Newbie
Misspelling

[Horse Newbie 7,075]

3 hours ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

As my grand pappy used to say, much gooder 

 

[Pullstart 62,913]

19 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

@KrazeyOlDave  Is that an aluminum head ?

And how did you clean it...wire brush ?

yes, they are aluminum.  It looks like a polish disc on a die grinder.  Every head should be flat plate lapped with sand paper and oil to ensure flatness before re-installing too.

 

[Pullstart 62,913]

Took a stroll on Poppy tonight.

 

 

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

55 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

@KrazeyOlDave  Is that an aluminum head ?

And how did you clean it...wire brush ?

Yep, low RPM wire brush on a die grinder. If you’re not experienced with using a die grinder on aluminum, don’t try on yours. I used to work in a pattern shop, many years of brain numbing grinding. 

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

38 minutes ago, pullstart said:

yes, they are aluminum.  It looks like a polish disc on a die grinder.  Every head should be flat plate lapped with sand paper and oil to ensure flatness before re-installing too.

 

I’ve never had to do that with any good running engine with aluminum head, not even on our race bikes. If you break the bolts loose in the correct order, the head will be within .010 every time. The gasket is designed to make up the difference. You should never torque, run, cool and re-torque them either, not on aluminum heads.

[KrazeyOlDave 860]

41 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Took a stroll on Poppy tonight.

 

 

I like those rear tires, better photo of them?

[Pullstart 62,913]

5 minutes ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

I like those rear tires, better photo of them?

That photo isn’t necessarily about the foreground...  

 

Here’s a link to more detail on “Poppy” my 7 horsepower 552.

 

 

there are pictures in my gallery too.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by pullstart
Gallery link

[ebinmaine 67,628]

4 hours ago, lynnmor said:

 

Did you try slowing the idle down?

Had it down to about 1250. Engine wasn't happy there. Tried 2 different carb. Both had been cleaned up. Just doesn't "sound right" below about 1350. 

[ebinmaine 67,628]

2 hours ago, KrazeyOlDave said:

You should never torque, run, cool and re-torque them either, not on aluminum heads

With all due respect, that's not been my experience. 

I've had a few Kohler K Series heads off/on the past few years. 

8 HP through 16 HP. All singles. 

 

Between 1 and 3 bolts gained a bit after a heat cycle on ALL the engines I've done. 

 

I do realize there are different schools of thought on this depending on who you ask.

I've never personally met anyone that doesn't do it but I'm not in the rebuilding or race world. 

 

The way I see it, retorque them. If they move, great. If not, great. You lost nothing but a few minutes of time. 

 

I can't comment on the sanding/planing for a good running engine as all the ones I've had apart did have slight gasket leaks. 

None of ours were out of plane by much but all got at least a touch up on the sandpaper taped to glass we use. 

 

[19richie66 17,508]

straight out of the Kohler service manual. 👍

[lynnmor 7,308]

1 hour ago, 19richie66 said:

straight out of the Kohler service manual. 👍

 

You might want to retorque the head bolts AFTER installing the spark plugs, they seem to start much better with the plugs in. 

[pfrederi 17,741]

18 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I ask because when we had the K341 apart we did decarbonize and of course new gasket. 

When you shut it down it backfires unless the throttle is immediately opened full. 

It's the only engine we have that does it. 

 

 

Much of the backfire after shut down is from hot spots in the muffler igniting the gas air mixture pumped out by the engine after the spark is turned off.  That is why most modern engines have a fuel shut off solenoid in the carb that  blocks flow of gas to the venturi .

[ebinmaine 67,628]

2 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

 

 

Much of the backfire after shut down is from hot spots in the muffler igniting the gas air mixture pumped out by the engine after the spark is turned off.  That is why most modern engines have a fuel shut off solenoid in the carb that  blocks flow of gas to the venturi .

 

 

 

That was the conclusion I came to with this particular engine.  

 

I changed the way the stack top was held on and it did decrease the frequency of occurrence. 

 

I've since just continued to idle down, shut off key, and quickly raise throttle to full on. 

 

 

[Tractorhead 9,064]

Did a few minor Works this Weekend.

 

firstly painted the rear Seat Pan with structured Paint and after with Ral3003.

While removing the Seat, to rework the Pan, two of the Seat Screws in the Seat are broke out.

I found in my collection 4 boarded nuts, they fit perfectly in the now open Holes,

than i decide to exchange all the nuts to M8.

 

So i pointwelded them in and repainted the Seat bottom after that action again in Black to prevent Rust.

 

 

I like it how the Structure turns out.

 

Because i see last ride again few dribbs oil on the Floor, i changed the rear seal on left side.

 

 

With the pic i was able to remove the old Seal, that depends just few seconds.

while rubber loosened itself, a good choice to do that before doing any Winter Tasks.

 

 

The Seals i bought are perfectly Fit, thanks to @stevasaurus for the collected Dimensions you gave me.

 

 

With new Seals on, i remounted the painted Wheelhubs back on.

a fine film of Coppergrease will hopefully help for later changes, to remove the hubs as easy as they loosening now.

 

 

I decided to have an gap of 5mm between the Hubs and the Gearbox, to be able to remove them again with the Pulley remover i have,

even if they rotten on.

 

 

Back in with the Black tip painted Wheelscrews, so i just have to Wait for the Rear RIM‘s

New tyre‘s are allready onsite.

 

 

To tuneup the Seatpan optics a little more in optics, i decide to use a black border protection, what looks pretty nice.

preheated with hot air Gun it fits smoothly in the shape.

Next Task is to find two new Rubber stops, the fit in the holes above the Seatpan, because the old are squeesed hardly.

 

 

At least i remounted the yesterday‘s reworked Pullstart cover, because the rope rips and i must rewind it, 

i decide to rework it at once.

 

 

 

I love my Horse...😍

 

[Pullstart 62,913]

1 hour ago, Tractorhead said:

I love my Horse...😍

 

It shows Stefan!  Good work!  I am not sure, but does the set screw need to be perfectly centered over the half moon key way?  Maybe moving the hub outward affects that?

[ebinmaine 67,628]

22 minutes ago, pullstart said:

It shows Stefan!  Good work!  I am not sure, but does the set screw need to be perfectly centered over the half moon key way?  Maybe moving the hub outward affects that?

It needs to be at, or quite close to, Center. Depends on the setup because some Horses I've seen have longer keyways which means you'd have to be right on center or things will move around. 

Some other Horses I've seen have a slight flat on the bottom of the round because the groove isn't quite deep enough to leave a true round key in place. 

 

 

[Tractorhead 9,064]

16 minutes ago, pullstart said:

It shows Stefan!  Good work!  I am not sure, but does the set screw need to be perfectly centered over the half moon key way?  Maybe moving the hub outward affects that?

 

Think you‘re right about that but if look closer at following Pict, than ya will see,

 

 

it was not really Centered until  what can see on the impressions the measured decenter was 3 mm to before,

so that was my decision to set it on 5 mm Gap, now it shall be exactly on Center of the Keeway.

 

 

[ohiofarmer 3,276]

20 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

 

    I cleaned three of mine, and since they were new to me, it appears that removing the heads for inspection i a good idea. What a shame that the torque on the head bolts was little more than finger tight on one of them. this actually caused pitting from exhaust gasses or possibly it was just corrosion. Since the inside is still intact with the pitting in the center of the gasket, i will use high temp JB weld before decking down the head. Then keep my eyes on it

  I looked up the heads as aftermarket and found a pulling engine website. and they had a lot to say about K- series head evolution. some of the early heads with the spark plug in the center are good for pulling, but maybe not so great for a work tractor. A guy might even be able to trade for a nice later head with some cash besides .  Also noted that these head experts tend to re-use their gaskets and putting aluminum paint on them. I used some old Rustoleum that had a lot of free paste in the can and applied it to all surfaces before assembly. i let it get nearly dry and smoothed it flat with a fingertip. the story they told is that the aircraft mechanics discovered this when they had to keep the fighters in the air in the pacific theater. My Dad can attest to making do with less as he kept moving toward Japan and working with patched bombers and trucks and picking apart cracked brass [they reloaded it} from .50 cal. belts used in b-17s and b-24s

Edited November 22, 2020 by ohiofarmer

[Horse Newbie 7,075]

7 hours ago, 19richie66 said:

straight out of the Kohler service manual. 👍

I'm referring to aluminum heads on an Onan P220G...

so I guess it wouldn't matter huh, aluminum heads are aluminum heads...

So what I'm gathering here is some people torque, run 15 minutes or so, let cool, and re-torque, and some people don't.

And I tend to agree with @ebinmaine  wouldn't hurt to do it...

[19richie66 17,508]

Some people read instructions...... some throw them away   

[19richie66 17,508]

Finally finished some of my fuel filter brackets. Now I only need 4 more.