What have you done to your Wheel Horse today?

[Oldskool 6,644]

11 hours ago, Tuneup said:

So, the 48" deck will finally get the welding treatment but, wait! I have to figure out how to flexcore weld, or learn to weld period, since I last welded in school at 14 and that was gas and stick. Hmmmm, 1977... So, I'm a little rusty, or just plain suck. Practiced on the lower rim as I can grind it to my heart's content and it's hidden from view when mounted. Crappy. I know, I know. I'll get it right!

 

 

I've got the heat set properly for that rim (E) and the feed is good but I can't see what the heck I'm welding! The helmet's down almost to min. Cheap helmet... If I could see what I was doing, I'm sure I could pull a clean bead, really!!

 

This deck is full of hairline cracks.

 

 

Anyway, burned through the deck (only A is not too hot for that thin metal) so have a little hole to fill. Getting there. Harbor Freight Titanium 125. I do like it...have always wanted to play.

 

 

Not done with that bugger either. When I am, I guarantee y'all that it will be smooth as silk and I'll grind that whole surface clean for anti-rust treatment.

 

If you drill a little hole at the ends of the cracks it keeps them from traveling later on. Also you can use a piece of copper or brass to hold under the hole while welding. Which helps with burn thru., keeping  the hole from getting larger before getting it filled in. Looking good though.

[Oldskool 6,644]

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Edited May 5, 2021 by Oldskool

[Oldskool 6,644]

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Edited May 5, 2021 by Oldskool

[Greentored 3,201]

17 hours ago, Snoopy11 said:

Dat's what I thought...

 

Let me elaborate on why I ask this question. I have been talking to ARC racing about my engines. Obviously, the engines we are dealing with here are splash lubricated. Running high rpm creates issues which any gearhead understands. Secretly, ARC racing hopes I will run a motorcycle engine... but I don't have 4 grand to spend, so they also told me that there is a possibility to run a 2 stroke engine more reliably at these RPM specs.

 

Anybody agree so far?

 

AND being that I have a tractor competition here where I live, and being fast is considered a luxury... maybe this is a possibility since I have an extra 3 hp -2 stroke engine laying around... brand new...?

 

Just a thought.

 

Don

What kind of competition are we talking about? If its flat out drag or oval/road course Id think you might be ok with that 2 stroke, but if its off road/crawling/mud runs/wheelies you might want to reconsider, forget hp and go for torque- like a big honkin' 4 stroke and pulley swap it for the speed you need.

Most of us guys playing with offroading these are running anything from stock 8hp Kohlers to hopped up Predator and Vanguard V twins, and pulleys changed to run maybe 18-20mph flat out. Thats over triple the trans input speed that these Horses were designed for, yet very little if any failures, even on the lighter duty 3/4 speeds, and the only internal modifications done are to weld up or/flip the pinions to lock the axles. I just put new bearings and seals in my 8 pinion 8 speed after MUCH offroading, 14hp Kohler power/ 18mph top speed, and found absolutely zero internal issues.  A couple guys are buzzing these things 40+mph and they're holding up, but I cant imagine for long. Have even heard rumors of 50mph+, but he grenaded two already and is going a different route.

As for the splash lube, you are correct, but as long as its full of oil, the failure rate is extremely low, even on hard cornering and/or extreme steep/off camber situations. This still blows my mind but its a fact.

Ona side note and disclaimer haha- aside from a choice few, most of us offroad guys are all about having some fun WITHOUT destroying these machines! They're old, they're built like a tank, but they're also not made anymore, and when they're gone, they're gone.....

[Tuneup 1,433]

8 hours ago, MikMacMike said:

A wee trick on the lighter metal, stitch it instead of tryinhg to run a bead, takes longer but youll have far more heat control. In fact I turn it a bit hotter when I stitch, far less spatter and and I can be in and out alot faster. As for seeing the dag nabber weld I have to use cheaters hahahah, Im a blind old fart. In fact I was looking to see if fleebay sold microscope welding helits ......just kidding. Afew years back though I did get an automatic darkening sheild, it was the cats ass all the way. plus now a days there so cheap compared to then too.

 

Thanks for that! I did notice that just running a spot on it and then checking seemed to work well. It is auto-darkening and set to the 10 setting. I see that some shine a bright light on it but that hasn't helped me. I'll get it - will take time and I am patient. Need those tips, though! One can't rely on youtube for everything...

[Tuneup 1,433]

2 hours ago, Oldskool said:

If you drill a little hole at the ends of the cracks it keeps them from traveling later on. Also you can use a piece of copper or brass to hold under the hole while welding. Which helps with burn thru., keeping  the hole from getting larger before getting it filled in. Looking good though.

 

Thanks! That backing metal tip will come in handy. It's another rainy day in Georgia so I'll have plenty of time to get out there in the garage. Not retired yet but work can be slow and boring - I need the WH distraction. I plan to become a welding fiend!

[ebinmaine 67,461]

6 minutes ago, Tuneup said:

auto-darkening and set to the 10 setting. I see that some shine a bright light on it but that hasn't helped me

Like you I'm just in the learning process of figuring how how to weld.

 

I learned quite a while ago that my own eyes are a little slower than normal to adjust from dark to light. That makes it a challenge when welding.

 

For my own usage on my own auto darkening helmet I have to leave it at 9 and even that is just a hair too dark.

 

You may find that when you think a light is bright, you need to put three of them to really see what you're looking at through the auto darkening.

 

Keep experimenting with it and please do share the little things that you learn.

Like you said, YouTube is great. Limited, but great. As you can see the folks on this site are more than willing to share the little tidbits of information that you may not have already seen.

[Tuneup 1,433]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

Like you I'm just in the learning process of figuring how how to weld.

 

I learned quite a while ago that my own eyes are a little slower than normal to adjust from dark to light. That makes it a challenge when welding.

 

For my own usage on my own auto darkening helmet I have to leave it at 9 and even that is just a hair too dark.

 

You may find that when you think a light is bright, you need to put three of them to really see what you're looking at through the auto darkening.

 

Keep experimenting with it and please do share the little things that you learn.

Like you said, YouTube is great. Limited, but great. As you can see the folks on this site are more than willing to share the little tidbits of information that you may not have already seen.

 

Thanks, EB. It is exciting to try something new and even better to know that I now have an albeit "fractured" capability to repair metal. Maybe I'll attempt to repair the front pin on the old C-120 that is just floating along. The 42" RD cost me about $60 just for 15 minutes of minor stress repair. The $250 or so to get this ability was well worth it. Even the wife is persuaded and that is no small feat. God bless Harbor Freight - the poor man's industrial resource.

[MikMacMike 479]

1 hour ago, Tuneup said:

 

Thanks for that! I did notice that just running a spot on it and then checking seemed to work well. It is auto-darkening and set to the 10 setting. I see that some shine a bright light on it but that hasn't helped me. I'll get it - will take time and I am patient. Need those tips, though! One can't rely on youtube for everything...

Yes you tube is an excellent teacher, another way to really get to know your welding is to grab a sheeshload of different thickness metals from the scrap yard to practice on, Always always clean right to bare metal before you start. Now you play with every single setting on your machine, play with your travel speed to match, try pushing and pulling the wire while welding and another good one is once you get a wee bit better try welding not just on the flad but vertical going accross, vertical going up and or down and most of all over head with out catching yourself on fire hahahahah. Ok and like , Oldskool said: about backing with copper plate is sometime a definate absolute, but just make sure the copper is touching the steel on the back side, it draws the heat away and gives you more time before it blowes through. I meant to mention about the helmits too, When ever I clean mine I do so just like with glasses but I make sure to disassemble the lenses and clean between them too, all that dust and fumes will work its way inbetween also..... I have 2 Migs actually, they both have gas but one I use with gas and solid wire while the other I use with flux core, one I run I think is 0.023 wire and the other is 0.030. I did a few years back do some aluminum with mig on special thin wall tanks and some light duty structure peices, And I loved it but I just havnt gotten around to getting the extra gun and parts for that as of yet. Oh I almost forgot to tell you my fav trick when welding with flux core, yes flux core produces far more spatter on avg and eventually you will get the feel for the sweet spot where it even sounds smooth, But here is another one I use, I trim back my cone ....one sec Ill measure....Ive got my wire contact tip 3/16ths of an inch protruding past my cone for flux core, but it makes it impossible in wind to weld so you have to be in a non windy area, plus I dont use the spatter spray much at all I like the past far better but I mostly just use it on the gun itself so my consumables last far longer, wire brush your tip freaquintly and with a good set of side cutters I always cut a good half inch of the wire before I strike an arc, especially in cridical areas. Cutting back the cone really helps on the visual as you are welding. I usually have a dozen or so of each type of cone along with a full box of contact tips, never ever buy the cheap wire too, the chinees never ever have the quality wire like we do.......Miller, lincon all the name brands always have good wire at your local welders supply, I havnt tried it and I should but I have heard from a fabricator friend he will even use a mix co2 and flux core depending on aplication. Really there are a million tricks, its just having the time to try them all is what makes them hard, but my number one is, scrap metal from the wreckers clean clean clean and practice, its like anything else you will develope your skill and soon youll be like everyone else who has welding equipment......oh **** here comes old George wanting more welding dun, I try not to let anyone know theres welding equipment in my shop, cuz youll never get yr own stuff dun hahahahahah.

[Wheelhorse#1 1,657]

Installed a stack on my ole  71 800 grass cutter.I ordered it from Mr Kemp and couldn’t be happier.Sounds great too !

[johnnymag3 2,520]

Jim is the absolute best with mufflers.....

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

3 hours ago, Tuneup said:

 

Thanks for that! I did notice that just running a spot on it and then checking seemed to work well. It is auto-darkening and set to the 10 setting. I see that some shine a bright light on it but that hasn't helped me. I'll get it - will take time and I am patient. Need those tips, though! One can't rely on youtube for everything...

Well, when talking about bright lights, if you have a droplight and put it right next to the project, like... literally a few inches away... you will be able to see better. Also, if you weld on a sunny day outside, you can see excellently well.

 

My grandfather was a master welder for ITT Rayonier... so if you need any advice... I will try to help!

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

5 hours ago, Greentored said:

What kind of competition are we talking about? If its flat out drag or oval/road course Id think you might be ok with that 2 stroke, but if its off road/crawling/mud runs/wheelies you might want to reconsider, forget hp and go for torque- like a big honkin' 4 stroke and pulley swap it for the speed you need.

Most of us guys playing with offroading these are running anything from stock 8hp Kohlers to hopped up Predator and Vanguard V twins, and pulleys changed to run maybe 18-20mph flat out. Thats over triple the trans input speed that these Horses were designed for, yet very little if any failures, even on the lighter duty 3/4 speeds, and the only internal modifications done are to weld up or/flip the pinions to lock the axles. I just put new bearings and seals in my 8 pinion 8 speed after MUCH offroading, 14hp Kohler power/ 18mph top speed, and found absolutely zero internal issues.  A couple guys are buzzing these things 40+mph and they're holding up, but I cant imagine for long. Have even heard rumors of 50mph+, but he grenaded two already and is going a different route.

As for the splash lube, you are correct, but as long as its full of oil, the failure rate is extremely low, even on hard cornering and/or extreme steep/off camber situations. This still blows my mind but its a fact.

Ona side note and disclaimer haha- aside from a choice few, most of us offroad guys are all about having some fun WITHOUT destroying these machines! They're old, they're built like a tank, but they're also not made anymore, and when they're gone, they're gone.....

Yes sir, flat out drag.

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

12 hours ago, MikMacMike said:

Well there are 4 strokes that have reved over 16000 rpm, in fact I wouldnt be surprised if they have topped 20,000 rpm now. If im not mistaken the F1 or indy motors I think rev right up there. You did get me thinking though....oh oh here comes trouble??? Does anyone remember what was refered to amungst other bikes a widow maker? Kawasaki triple threat? Dag nabber when it hit its power band they would just snap faster then one could correct. Now one of those in your wheel horse Id be uping my life insurance heheheheh.

Yeah, only thing about those is that they have positive oil pressure (oil pump).

 

Splash lubrication is good, but not great...

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

12 hours ago, MikMacMike said:

But Snoopy heres the thing. hp is really just a timed mathimatical equaion of tork. Dont get me wrong when we run 600+ hp down the quarter or even better a big 455 on alky it can shave the nuts of an owel. But if there is no tork youll be playing footsy with the clutch??? And if the ratio between the engine and tranny are changed you are basically under driving it so down goes your speed also. But listen to each there own and building anything different then most can be so much fun too, well as long as it works and doesnt cost a bundle. Personally Id like to try a diesel. HP might be low but the tork is almost always tremendousely back breaking.

You are correct. I found that out the hard way, after I spend hours fabricating to put the 2 stroker on the tractor. Just letting the clutch down to engage the transmission (STILL IN NEUTRAL) made the 2 stroker strain... NO TORQUE>>>

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

12 hours ago, MikMacMike said:

A wee trick on the lighter metal, stitch it instead of tryinhg to run a bead, takes longer but youll have far more heat control. In fact I turn it a bit hotter when I stitch, far less spatter and and I can be in and out alot faster. As for seeing the dag nabber weld I have to use cheaters hahahah, Im a blind old fart. In fact I was looking to see if fleebay sold microscope welding helits ......just kidding. Afew years back though I did get an automatic darkening sheild, it was the cats ass all the way. plus now a days there so cheap compared to then too.

Another thought. Master welder Grandfather taught me this. If you are using mig (including flux core) hold the welding gun a little further away than you normally would. You will know how far to hold it away after a few tries. This will allow for a little cooler burn, thus not burning through the metal.

 

Works even for the thinnest sheetmetal I have come across!!!

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

1 hour ago, johnnymag3 said:

Jim is the absolute best with mufflers.....

 

There is more to mufflers and exhaust systems then we would think.

[ranger 1,750]

16 hours ago, MikMacMike said:

Well there are 4 strokes that have reved over 16000 rpm, in fact I wouldnt be surprised if they have topped 20,000 rpm now. If im not mistaken the F1 or indy motors I think rev right up there. You did get me thinking though....oh oh here comes trouble??? Does anyone remember what was refered to amungst other bikes a widow maker? Kawasaki triple threat? Dag nabber when it hit its power band they would just snap faster then one could correct. Now one of those in your wheel horse Id be uping my life insurance heheheheh.

My last bike in the early 70’s was an S2 Kawasaki, 45hp but only revved to around 81/2 k if I remember correctly, lethal in the wet, would rev to 6k fast but then when the needle hit 6k, it went to 81/2 in a split second. The Honda twins (4 strokes) of that era red lined at 10-1/2k.

 

Doug.

Edited May 5, 2021 by ranger

[Stormin 9,981]

I remember the Kwacker 3's. Rode one of the first 500's once. And only once. Bloody lethal.

 

  My C-81 and C-121 (Black Horse), had not been run since some time in March. After seeing Meadowfields post on the state of C4's carb, I decided to fire them up this morning.

   The C-81 fired up after about 3 seconds. Left it running for 15 minutes and it purred like a kitten.

   Black Horse needed a couple of squeezes of the primer bulb I've fitted. Two spins of the engine and away it went. Also left that running for 15 minutes.

   Gave them both a run down the bridleway past my place and not a splutter from either.

 

[Tuneup 1,433]

8 hours ago, MikMacMike said:

Yes you tube is an excellent teacher, another way to really get to know your welding is to grab a sheeshload of different thickness metals from the scrap yard to practice on, Always always clean right to bare metal before you start. Now you play with every single setting on your machine, play with your travel speed to match, try pushing and pulling the wire while welding and another good one is once you get a wee bit better try welding not just on the flad but vertical going accross, vertical going up and or down and most of all over head with out catching yourself on fire hahahahah. Ok and like , Oldskool said: about backing with copper plate is sometime a definate absolute, but just make sure the copper is touching the steel on the back side, it draws the heat away and gives you more time before it blowes through. I meant to mention about the helmits too, When ever I clean mine I do so just like with glasses but I make sure to disassemble the lenses and clean between them too, all that dust and fumes will work its way inbetween also..... I have 2 Migs actually, they both have gas but one I use with gas and solid wire while the other I use with flux core, one I run I think is 0.023 wire and the other is 0.030. I did a few years back do some aluminum with mig on special thin wall tanks and some light duty structure peices, And I loved it but I just havnt gotten around to getting the extra gun and parts for that as of yet. Oh I almost forgot to tell you my fav trick when welding with flux core, yes flux core produces far more spatter on avg and eventually you will get the feel for the sweet spot where it even sounds smooth, But here is another one I use, I trim back my cone ....one sec Ill measure....Ive got my wire contact tip 3/16ths of an inch protruding past my cone for flux core, but it makes it impossible in wind to weld so you have to be in a non windy area, plus I dont use the spatter spray much at all I like the past far better but I mostly just use it on the gun itself so my consumables last far longer, wire brush your tip freaquintly and with a good set of side cutters I always cut a good half inch of the wire before I strike an arc, especially in cridical areas. Cutting back the cone really helps on the visual as you are welding. I usually have a dozen or so of each type of cone along with a full box of contact tips, never ever buy the cheap wire too, the chinees never ever have the quality wire like we do.......Miller, lincon all the name brands always have good wire at your local welders supply, I havnt tried it and I should but I have heard from a fabricator friend he will even use a mix co2 and flux core depending on aplication. Really there are a million tricks, its just having the time to try them all is what makes them hard, but my number one is, scrap metal from the wreckers clean clean clean and practice, its like anything else you will develope your skill and soon youll be like everyone else who has welding equipment......oh **** here comes old George wanting more welding dun, I try not to let anyone know theres welding equipment in my shop, cuz youll never get yr own stuff dun hahahahahah.

 

Wow, what a write-up! Thank you! I'll be at it again tonight.

[Tuneup 1,433]

6 hours ago, Snoopy11 said:

Another thought. Master welder Grandfather taught me this. If you are using mig (including flux core) hold the welding gun a little further away than you normally would. You will know how far to hold it away after a few tries. This will allow for a little cooler burn, thus not burning through the metal.

 

Works even for the thinnest sheetmetal I have come across!!!

 

Greatly appreciated, thank you.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

1 hour ago, Tuneup said:

 

Greatly appreciated, thank you.

Your welcome! Yeah, as far as I have found, this is a great trick if you need to fill in some small holes too! You can go back further, and it won't burn through... (won't make the most beautiful welds in the world, but they are solid).

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

1 hour ago, Tuneup said:

 

Greatly appreciated, thank you.

One more question that just came to mind... do you have some nozzle dip? Best thing to save your welding tips! Just apply a little to your welding gun tip, and (I personally have never had to replace a tip in many years of welding, thanks to this stuff...)

 

There are other kinds, but in my opinion... the best kind is Cooter Snot...

 

Don

[Tuneup 1,433]

2 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

One more question that just came to mind... do you have some nozzle dip? Best thing to save your welding tips! Just apply a little to your welding gun tip, and (I personally have never had to replace a tip in many years of welding, thanks to this stuff...)

 

There are other kinds, but in my opinion... the best kind is Cooter Snot...

 

Don

 

Interesting! It's always time to buy something when one has a new hobby so now snot from Amazon is on the list. I put the 500 watt light on the work today. I could just make-out the work. Did pretty well. I'll have to open up a couple of those cracks so the weld fills through but it's coming along.

[tom2p 2,394]

20 hours ago, MikMacMike said:

Well there are 4 strokes that have reved over 16000 rpm, in fact I wouldnt be surprised if they have topped 20,000 rpm now. If im not mistaken the F1 or indy motors I think rev right up there. 

 

you are correct - F1 engines at one time maxed around 20K RPM - later rules restricted max RPM and current max might be around 18K RPM

 

a mid-60's Honda GP bike (RC166) revved to almost 20K RPM 

some of the production high-end Japanese 250 street bikes rev to around 18K RPM 

 

My mid-90's Ninja 250 revs to 16K RPM I believe ... makes max HP at 14.5K RPM

 

I had a '76 RM100 - that bike revved to around 12K RPM ... max HP at around 10.5 K RPM

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by tom2p