What have you done to your Wheel Horse today?

[GAJoe 844]

@peter lenaI began servicing the PTO . I added washers to the PTO linkage to take some slop out as Peter recommends. I cleaned the grease out of the cone needle bearing getting it ready for the Extra-Heavy Lucas but before putting the new grease I wanted to do something with the outer ball bearing. The large snap ring is just flush with the outer surface; not in a groove. It that how others are or has something happened to mine? I replaced the small snap rings: the original were tired and not going back to the original circumference. That outer bearing is smooth but feels dry if you know what I mean. I'd love to get some of the new high temp grease in it if possible but the seals are metal and don't seem to want to come out. Any suggestions on how to get new grease into it? I guess I could replace it but the Napa near me doesn't have the replacement in stock.

Edited January 14, 2023 by GAJoe

[GAJoe 844]

On 1/12/2023 at 5:37 PM, GAJoe said:

Picked up two new 4ply front tires from the Tractor Supply Seasonal Clearance for half price.

I began changing the front tires. The first one that I tackled was one that leaks down slowly. I got the old tire off and found rust on the bead mating surface. I put a wire brush in my drill and got the rust and paint off. I primed it with Self-Etching primer then put a coat of white enamel on it. I'll let it cure at least 24 hrs in the house and try to mount the new tire on it. Hope it holds air without a tube.

Edited January 14, 2023 by GAJoe

[8ntruck 7,019]

1 hour ago, GAJoe said:

@peter lenaI began servicing the PTO . I added washers to the PTO linkage to take some slop out as Peter recommends. I cleaned the grease out of the cone needle bearing getting it ready for the Extra-Heavy Lucas but before putting the new grease I wanted to do something with the outer ball bearing. The large snap ring is just flush with the outer surface; not in a groove. It that how others are or has something happened to mine? I replaced the small snap rings: the original were tired and not going back to the original circumference. That outer bearing is smooth but feels dry if you know what I mean. I'd love to get some of the new high temp grease in it if possible but the seals are metal and don't seem to want to come out. Any suggestions on how to get new grease into it? I guess I could replace it but the Napa near me doesn't have the replacement in stock.

Pull that large snap ring holding the outer ball bearing and make sure that both sides of the groove are really there.  It should be inset some .060" to .080" from the end of the bell.

 

The PTO bell on the C195 I bought recently was also flush to the outside edge of the bell.  Turns out that the end of the PTO bell was worn down that far!  The clip groove did not have an outer edge on it.  Had to replace the bell.  Might be possible to machine a cap to replace the outside edge of the groove.

 

I'm guessing that the pin that connects the PTO arch to the stub shaft in the bell broke or was somehow rubbing on the end of the bell, wearing it down.

[peter lena 8,637]

@GAJoe    look up other bearing options , brands , for  a  wide rubber side  shield to make  grease change easy , that sliding side thrust  is the killer on that set up  , STENS  might have one . always lubricate in  snap ring , so it can adapt to its work . first picture ,is the washer fill in start point of pto lever , firm it up / lube , also note heim joint end , rethread rod end with , 3/8x24 DIE NuT , just go over original trunnion  thread, that pto lever frame is also your  battery ground cable  bolt point , last picture shows  ground cable to engine / frame corner  from that  battery cable bolt spot . rectifier  works better , amp gauge works , extend to head lights , bright lights . also note  battery tender plug in , always  simple / easy  plug in . look up that bearing on line , also lightly lubricate the inner needle bearing . that entire set up can and should operate very easily . did all of it on my 3 horses , no noise or failures . keep going , pete   

 

[peter lena 8,637]

@GAJoe  https://www.agrisupply.com/bearing/p/17967/?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=bing&utm_campaign=NB_PLA_AllProducts_BING&msclkid=48487975bd4f1b66ef491ab70ea15adc  LIKE THIS ,  makes a re grease  simple / easy .  pete

[lynnmor 7,308]

11 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Pull that large snap ring holding the outer ball bearing and make sure that both sides of the groove are really there.  It should be inset some .060" to .080" from the end of the bell.

 

The PTO bell on the C195 I bought recently was also flush to the outside edge of the bell.  Turns out that the end of the PTO bell was worn down that far!  The clip groove did not have an outer edge on it.  Had to replace the bell.  Might be possible to machine a cap to replace the outside edge of the groove.

 

I'm guessing that the pin that connects the PTO arch to the stub shaft in the bell broke or was somehow rubbing on the end of the bell, wearing it down.

 

I needed to replace a bell, so I bought from a vendor on this site.  Turned out that he had in stock two of them with the same abuse.  In order to cause the wear on the bell, someone adjusted the PTO till the hoop was pushing it instead of replacing the broken pin..  It seems to be a widespread problem with that pin breaking and that there is no mechanical ability.  The fix for a bell worn to the groove is replacement, it would be a project to make a cap to replace the missing metal.

[lynnmor 7,308]

13 hours ago, GAJoe said:

I guess I could replace it but the Napa near me doesn't have the replacement in stock.

 

Go to a different NAPA or check TSC.  That is a common bearing that isn't expensive, just toss them and forget about greasing.

[GAJoe 844]

11 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Pull that large snap ring holding the outer ball bearing and make sure that both sides of the groove are really there.  It should be inset some .060" to .080" from the end of the bell.

 

The PTO bell on the C195 I bought recently was also flush to the outside edge of the bell.  Turns out that the end of the PTO bell was worn down that far!  The clip groove did not have an outer edge on it.  Had to replace the bell.  Might be possible to machine a cap to replace the outside edge of the groove.

 

I'm guessing that the pin that connects the PTO arch to the stub shaft in the bell broke or was somehow rubbing on the end of the bell, wearing it down.

I can't say what happen with the PO but I don't see any sign of wear on another part just the end of the cone. And they look original. I took the center pin out and replaced the snap rings. I tried to remove the bearing by tapping it with a large brass rod. It wouldn't budge. I plan on putting all back together as it was with fresh grease in the needle bearing. The bearing isn't going anywhere without a press being used. The parts that apply the pressure to engage the pully are all there. So I think it will be fine. I would like to get some grease into that bearing if possible. It may have some. It spins smoothly but as cold as it is I would expect to feel some resistance as if the grease was cold.

If I do press the bearing out I probably would have to replace the cone/housing. If the bearing starts grinding I will plan on replacing it and the cone.

[GAJoe 844]

20 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

 

Go to a different NAPA or check TSC.  That is a common bearing that isn't expensive, just toss them and forget about greasing.

With the end of the cone apparently worn to the snap ring groove I'm going to put off the bearing replacement until needed; I probably have to replace the cone also when I do so that a snap ring can hold the new bearing in. My WH funds need some recovery time.

[squonk 41,158]

13 hours ago, GAJoe said:

 Napa near me doesn't have the replacement in stock.

They don't have a PP204RR6 in stock? 

[GAJoe 844]

1 minute ago, squonk said:

They don't have a PP204RR6 in stock? 

I'll call and check but the web page says no; but you know that can be wrong.

[GAJoe 844]

3 minutes ago, GAJoe said:

I'll call and check but the web page says no; but you know that can be wrong.

Called them. They do not but refered me to another store.

 

[squonk 41,158]

Did they even try the other options " I.E. P204RR6 and 204rr6?

[ebinmaine 67,657]

12 minutes ago, GAJoe said:

With the end of the cone apparently worn to the snap ring groove I'm going to put off the bearing replacement until needed; I probably have to replace the cone also when I do so that a snap ring can hold the new bearing in. My WH funds need some recovery time.

Joe I've likely got at least a couple few spare PTO bells.  

You pay the freight and they're yours. 

 

[lynnmor 7,308]

22 minutes ago, GAJoe said:

I can't say what happen with the PO but I don't see any sign of wear on another part just the end of the cone.

 

 

 

I believe that the large hairpin at the bottom of the hoop should be above the bracket, holding it up.  Others chime in, perhaps this model is different.

 

When you tried to remove the outer bearing, did you drive it from the inside?  If you hammered against the inner race it is likely ruined.  They usually come out easily, perhaps the PO used an adhesive, if that is the case, heat the bell at that end and hammer some more.

[GAJoe 844]

18 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Joe I've likely got at least a couple few spare PTO bells.  

You pay the freight and they're yours. 

 

I really do appreciate that! I will gladly pay freight. Let me know how much and how I need to.

 

[Ed Kennell 38,230]

12 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

 

I believe that the large hairpin at the bottom of the hoop should be above the bracket, holding it up.

 

                                                                                                             

 

      My 312, 417, and 520s are on the top.

[GAJoe 844]

9 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

 

                                                                                                             

 

      My 312, 417, and 520s are on the top.

I'll move it. That's how it was when I got it.

 

[ebinmaine 67,657]

19 minutes ago, GAJoe said:

I really do appreciate that! I will gladly pay freight. Let me know how much and how I need to.

 

Yeah you got it!

 

I'll take a poke around the shops later and see what I've got. 

PM later today.....

[GAJoe 844]

26 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

 

                                                                                                             

 

      My 312, 417, and 520s are on the top.

I went to move the hairpin and found this.

 

I couldn't see the pin on top in my picture either. I'll see if a washer will go between the bracket and the pin.

Edited January 14, 2023 by GAJoe
more info

[GAJoe 844]

I think that I got grease into it with the help of a Carrier coffee cup / koozie. It has a top that screws off to put a canned drink into it and replace the gasketed top to prevent condensate (sucking the cold out of the can contents). Well it just so happens that the end of the bell on the PTO is slightly smaller than the gasket and a perfect sealing fit. Look at the pictures and see what I dreamed up.

Cleaned bearings.

 

plugged the hole

 

Added air fitting to the koozie.

 

applied the grease

 

Sealed the koozie and pressurized it over the bell to force grease in if it can go

.

 

Something went intothe bearing to force this old grease out on the interior. Time will tell.

Edited January 14, 2023 by GAJoe

[squonk 41,158]

Hope you didn't get too much grease in there. It will end up on the clutch plate.

[ebinmaine 67,657]

47 minutes ago, GAJoe said:

Look at the pictures and see what I dreamed up

 

44 minutes ago, squonk said:

Hope you didn't get too much grease in there. It will end up on the clutch plate.

 

Yessir.  

Easy enough to pop off the bell and check it though.  

 

[GAJoe 844]

1 hour ago, squonk said:

Hope you didn't get too much grease in there. It will end up on the clutch plate.

I put about the same that was in. Worked it into the needle bearings and a little along the sides to the roller bearing. I figure that the centrifugal force when it's spinning will distribute an even layer the full length that hopefully will not be thicker than the seal is. I can keep an eye on it.

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by GAJoe

[Lee1977 6,673]

The wear on the end of the coneIs usually caused by a worn or bent spiral pin in the loop or the c-clip came out of the short shaft. Those c-clip grooves do wear out 

I have replace the short shaft 2 times in the last .46 years on my C-120.

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Lee1977