What have you done to your Wheel Horse today?

[pfrederi 17,659]

32 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

 

The method of distributing oil around inside is the weak part. Magnum twins are almost identical, but have full pressure lube and an oil filter. Many parts will interchange between the two. Just nothing with an oil port on it.

 

I have a "short block" M18 that I'm gearing up to rebuild, and then robs as much as possible from a complete KT-17 that I have with weak compression.

 

 

 

 

Not all Magnum18s had oil filters but you can retro fit one if it didn't. Good luck on your rebuild.  Parts in over/under are difficult to find and not cheap even for after market....

[Brockport Bill 1,656]

On 3/2/2022 at 3:22 PM, 8ntruck said:

I stopped by a local outdoor power equipment that has been around since the early 70s.  Turns out that it used to be a Wheel Horse dealer.  I asked if he happened to have a carb stashed somewhere for a KT 19.  No such luck.

 

He does have a NOS 48" deck shell.  His asking price was not crazy.  I do have a 48" deck on the project list.  It will require patching and de-twisting. 

 

Do I buy the new shell and use it as a basis for the rebuild, then put it to work, or pass on it and leave it for somebody doing a full (trailer queen) restore?

if price for new deck is anywhere near fair then suggest to buy it even if you put it in attic for few yrs before its needed -- i did some deck restores last yr with my grandson -- and some were sound and just needed basic cleanup - some needed sandblasting before primer and paint, and some needed minor welds - other considerable weld patches -- but in the end they are all living breathing working decks now -- and will last many yrs - but to have a new shell is as they say is "priceless" -- considering lck of availablity -- then fact is the deck will become even more desirable over coming yrs so then suggest you go for it ----------- my own original 37 Sd deck i bought in 89 with my 312-8 was totally rehabbed last yr ( by auto body shop) and looks factory and operates factory now

[kpinnc 11,896]

37 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Parts in over/under are difficult to find and not cheap even for after market....

 

Oh this is for me somewhat of an experiment. If it goes high on cost estimate, it won't be completed. I haven't even checked the short block out yet. My micrometer will be decisive on this little project before I buy anything. 

[kpinnc 11,896]

52 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

It's flabbergasting to me how many people will buy something of good value and quality and treat it like it was a dollar store purchase.

 

From what I've seen personally, it's more ignorance than abuse. My mom (who lives 4 hours away) bought a Craftsman riding mower and then called me 4 years later asking how to change the oil in it. When I asked her when it had been changed last, she didn't know. She said my sister's boyfriend "had been doing all of that stuff". My sister was about 19 at the time. So I asked her why did she think it needed changing, she said because it was making a gritty grinding noise when she tried to crank it...

 

I told her to call someone to mow her grass, because her mower was gone. I put another engine on it some time afterward. I've never seen a motor destroyed inside like that one was. In four years, it had never been serviced.

[OutdoorEnvy 1,522]

Well it was time for my least enjoyable maintenance job of maintaining my horse in good shape...mower deck cleaning and sharpening...but it's gotta get done.  I don't over do it.  I knock most of the dirt/debris off and spray it off and let it dry in the sun, then spray some WD40 on the under side, sharpen and balance the blades, then grease it pretty good.  I'm always satisfied and get the warm and fuzzy feelings when it's done though...she's ready for those baseball practice fields!

 

 

 

[Wheelhorse#1 1,645]

Took the ole girls out for their spring photo shoot.

Also sharpened the blades on the 71 800 grass cutter.

She smokes ,knock’s and taps like crazy but still runs  strong.Can’t decide if I should try to rebuild the 8 Briggs?…I know a bad word around here😝or drop a Kohler in.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Wheelhorse#1

[Wheelhorse#1 1,645]

3 hours ago, OutdoorEnvy said:

Well it was time for my least enjoyable maintenance job of maintaining my horse in good shape...mower deck cleaning and sharpening...but it's gotta get done.  I don't over do it.  I knock most of the dirt/debris off and spray it off and let it dry in the sun, then spray some WD40 on the under side, sharpen and balance the blades, then grease it pretty good.  I'm always satisfied and get the warm and fuzzy feelings when it's done though...she's ready for those baseball practice fields!

 

 

 

Looking good.It does feel good once you get it installed back on the tractor.It’s like wrestling a 500 pound gorilla ! 

[cleat 5,809]

Try wrestling the 60" deck....

 

[ebinmaine 67,259]

I took the cylinder head off the C160 Automatic. 

That's gonna need a rebuild.  

Major piston slap...

 

 

[Wheelhorse#1 1,645]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I took the cylinder head off the C160 Automatic. 

That's gonna need a rebuild.  

Major piston slap...

 

 

What causes it to break the piston like that what does it hit…the head ?Caused by a worn crank bearing ?

[ebinmaine 67,259]

12 minutes ago, Wheelhorse#1 said:

What causes it to break the piston like that what does it hit…the head ?Caused by a worn crank bearing ?

This picture was taken after I cleaned a fair amount of carbon out. 

The "out-of-round" is natural wear. 

The chipped piston, I believe, is from the carbon breaking it.  

I don't have reason to believe the crank is worn excessively.  

 

[kpinnc 11,896]

On 3/5/2022 at 6:00 PM, Wheelhorse#1 said:

I know a bad word around here😝or drop a Kohler in.

 

Not a bad word. That's what came in it from the factory.

[19richie66 17,500]

@ebinmaine From what I’ve read, the 16hp piston had that notch in the top. Not a chip. Faces the flywheel. 

[ebinmaine 67,259]

7 minutes ago, 19richie66 said:

@ebinmaine From what I’ve read, the 16hp piston had that notch in the top. Not a chip. Faces the flywheel. 

That notch is definitely there but check out this picture.

Tough to see without zooming in so I cropped the picture. Look at the gap between the piston and the wall...

 

 

[19richie66 17,500]

I see what you’re talking about. Didn’t notice that in the first picture. My bad….. Carry on. 

[kpinnc 11,896]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Look at the gap between the piston and the wall...

 

I'm not so sure that's cylinder wall out of round. Looks almost like the piston ground against something and wore down on the lip. Almost like it tried to rock over to one side in the cylinder? Maybe it was grinding some carbon that fell from the head? Or just burned piston. It's on the exhaust side...

 

If the cylinder was that far worn and out of round, I don't think you'd have compression enough to crank it. Not saying the cylinder won't have scoring there, but if it had a visible amount of out of round, it in the very least shouldn't have power at all. 

 

Just my opinion. Very possibly wrong... 

 

And if you just don't want to deal with it, crate it up and I will take it off your hands... 

Edited March 7, 2022 by kpinnc

[kpinnc 11,896]

And Eb- I've seen a piston break the whole skirt off and still run for a while. Definitely allows for it to wobble over one way or the other.

 

The more I look at your pic, the more it just looks like a burned piston. Does the cylinder wall have scoring in the same spot?

[ebinmaine 67,259]

8 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

And Eb- I've seen a piston break the whole skirt off and still run for a while. Definitely allows for it to wobble over one way or the other.

 

The more I look at your pic, the more it just looks like a burned piston. Does the cylinder wall have scoring in the same spot?

I don't actually dare to answer that without taking a look when I get home.

Seems to me I remember the cylinder being kind of egg-shaped but it was only on that one side so it most certainly could have been an optical illusion based on colors of grays and blacks and steels.

 

[lynnmor 7,302]

I suspect that the top ring is knackered.

 

[ebinmaine 67,259]

6 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

I suspect that the top ring is knackered.

 

Given the amount of carbon that was in that area I would tend to agree with you

[kpinnc 11,896]

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

suspect that the top ring is knackered.

 

Probably so. 

 

My observation didn't change anything from Eb's initial finding. If the piston and rings are damaged, it's likely the cylinder has some problems too. My thoughts were just that if the cylinder is out of round enough to show in a picture, it's likely beyond what .030 bore can fix. That isn't what it looks like to me.

 

I think the end result is the same: definitely time for a rebuild. Only way to tell if it needs a fresh bore is to mic it out. Seems like taper (top to bottom of cylinder travel) was the tightest Kohler spec, with .0005 allowed. That is extremely small. I don't recall the out of round spec.

Edited March 7, 2022 by kpinnc

[ebinmaine 67,259]

1 minute ago, kpinnc said:

 

Probably so. 

 

My observation didn't change anything from Eb's initial finding. If the piston and rings are damaged, it's likely the cylinder has some problems too. 

 

I think the end result is the same: definitely time for a rebuild. Only way to tell if it needs a fresh bore is to mic it out. Seems like taper (top to bottom of cylinder travel) was the tightest Kohler spec, with .0005 allowed. That is extremely small. I don't recall the out of round spec.

 

I haven't tried to stick a feeler gauge on either side of this piston yet but I can assure you it's more than tolerance by at least twice.  

 

I have other options to use for power on this tractor and I'm also doing a little local poking around to see what I can come up with for a temporary power plant.

 

[kpinnc 11,896]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

have other options to use for power on this tractor and I'm also doing a little local poking around to see what I can come up with for a temporary power plant.

 

I think that 16 can be fixed. They are awesome engines. Keep us posted!

[ebinmaine 67,259]

3 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

 

I think that 16 can be fixed. They are awesome engines. Keep us posted!

Oh absolutely. It can be fixed.

Certainly not something I'm going to throw away just because it needs a rebuild.

I just need to put that a little further down the project list and get this tractor back up and running.

Off the top of my head I can't remember.... I think the bore on these is maybe 3.75? Supposedly you can go as high as 4.00 in.

Should be a ton of metal in there to be able to cut out if I need to.

[kpinnc 11,896]

48 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Off the top of my head I can't remember.... I think the bore on these is maybe 3.75? Supposedly you can go as high as 4.00 in.

Should be a ton of metal in there to be able to cut out if I need to.

 

3.750 std, 3.780 with .030 over.

 

But there may be some tricks above that. I don't know.