Electric Modification Question

[Jack Oldham 2]

Hi All,

   I have a question regarding doing an electric mod on my Wheelhorse A800 Ranger. What I wish to do is install some front headlights, rear brake lights, and indicators on all four corners i would also like to install a horn a some point but that can come later. I'm unsure on the best way of wiring this, what gauge wire to use, do I need a fuse if so what ampage and where also what size amp hour battery is best to use if I'm running these additions so i don't drain the battery. I understand more how I'm going to wire the indicators than how I'm going to get the break light to work but really require advice on both.

Thanks for you time in reading this.

Jack Oldham

[pfrederi 17,697]

Looking at the parts break out for the VM-80 engine I didn't see any regulator.  is there a regulator mounted on the chassis of your tractor??  if not I would guess you have a very low amperage fixed charging system...probably 3 amps at best.  Anything beyond a couple of LEDs will be draining your system.  Using all LEDS for your desires get a bigger battery and put it on a charger frequently....  Good news as you have a mag system the worse that happens is you will run the battery down and the lights will go out.  As long as you don't shut it off you will be OK

[953 nut 55,155]

 Unfortunately your manual below has no electrical drawing. As Paul said it is unlikely that the charging system is any more than 3 amps because there was no load to be serviced on the tractor other than charging the battery.

 

 

[KC9KAS 4,741]

@Jack Oldham 

[Jack Oldham 2]

Thanks for the response so far, yeah its a 3 amp charging system and that was my fear with it. What size battery do think would run that sort of lighting setup i was thinking 32 amp hr. Any idea on how to wire this up and what gauge of wire to use also any idea the fuses it would need?

[pfrederi 17,697]

How long are you going to run the lights??  LEDS or incandescent???  LEDs 16 or 18 ga would be more than enough.

[953 nut 55,155]

1 hour ago, Jack Oldham said:

thinking 32 amp hr.

Hope you intended to say 320 Amp Hr.  I would suggest you get the LED lights you want and see how the present battery works out.  You can always buy a stronger battery later if needed.

[Jack Oldham 2]

16 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Hope you intended to say 320 Amp Hr.  I would suggest you get the LED lights you want and see how the present battery works out.  You can always buy a stronger battery later if needed.

Well this is what i was looking at https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toro-Wheelhorse-xl380-Lawnmower-Battery/222372337257?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

that's 32AH i was always under the impression that was amp hour and that's what's on my other mower.

[Jack Oldham 2]

7 hours ago, pfrederi said:

How long are you going to run the lights??  LEDS or incandescent???  LEDs 16 or 18 ga would be more than enough.

Not to long 30mins to a probable max of 2 hours and was thinking LEDs as less of a power draw.

[pfrederi 17,697]

So long as you don't go overboard on LEDs and don't frequently shut the engine off and restart you should be able to get at least an hour or two out of it.  Then put it on a charger when you are done.

 

If you have a 3 amp system you can run 36 watts of LEDS with out draining the battery  Watts/Voltage = Amps

Edited January 11, 2018 by pfrederi

[WHX?? 48,813]

  Jack

By brake lights do you mean you want lights to come on when applying brakes. If so I would ask why you would need them? Some kind of parade duty? I have some ideas there for you if that's the case.

Yes stay with leds, you can get quite abit of  lighting with of led's. For example a 4 watt led  (36 watts equivalent incandescent)  would only draw about .4 amps or less. .

[Jack Oldham 2]

3 hours ago, pfrederi said:

So long as you don't go overboard on LEDs and don't frequently shut the engine off and restart you should be able to get at least an hour or two out of it.  Then put it on a charger when you are done.

 

If you have a 3 amp system you can run 36 watts of LEDS with out draining the battery  Watts/Voltage = Amps

Yeah sounds good thanks plan on two front headlights, 4 indicators and 2 rear brake lights thanks for working that out about the length of run time and amount of watts.

2 hours ago, WHX14 said:

  Jack

By brake lights do you mean you want lights to come on when applying brakes. If so I would ask why you would need them? Some kind of parade duty? I have some ideas there for you if that's the case.

Yes stay with leds, you can get quite abit of  lighting with of led's. For example a 4 watt led  (36 watts equivalent incandescent)  would only draw about .4 amps or less. .

Yeah brake wise that's the plan, i just thought its a nice edition and to make it slightly more road legal as i have relatively short distances traveling on road. Would love to hear your ideas on it thanks.

[pfrederi 17,697]

I sort of guessed being street legal was your basis.  We over here forget the stringent rules across the ocean on highway usage.  A friend of mine bought a SAME tractor (Italian) hat i worked on for him.  The electrical system was nightmare, High low beam head lights, turn signals 4 way flashers I can't recall how the brake lights were activated.  in your case would a momentary switch you pressed work...wouldn't be automatic but ...

[Jack Oldham 2]

Yeah that's the idea i hadn't thought of doing it on a momentary switch, as you say wouldn't be automatic but its something would definitely work. I was going for automatic but if I cant work out a way seems a good bet. Thanks.

[953 nut 55,155]

17 hours ago, Jack Oldham said:

Well this is what i was looking at https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toro-Wheelhorse-xl380-Lawnmower-Battery/222372337257?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

that's 32AH i was always under the impression that was amp hour and that's what's on my other mower.

My mistake. Lost track of where you live and was referring to the way batteries are rated State side.        

[Jack Oldham 2]

Ah right not to worry I didn't even no they were rated different in U.S. 

[pfrederi 17,697]

8 minutes ago, Jack Oldham said:

Ah right not to worry I didn't even no they were rated different in U.S. 

 

We have same rating but apply it most to Deep cycle batteries

 

Deep cycle batteries are rated in Amp hours  a 32AH battery should deliver 32 amps for 1 hour or 3.2 amps for 10 hours, but it would be completely discharged.  Starting batteries do not last long if they are completely discharged 

 

Starting batteries here tend to be rated for Cranking Amps and Cold Cranking amps  CA is the number of amps a battery can deliver for 30 seconds before the battery voltage drops to 7.2 at 32 degrees F   (CCA is same test at 0F)  That kind of rating is more reflective of the batteries ability to start something.

[pfrederi 17,697]

Some ideas 2150 lumen off road lights 2.25 amps each  (4.5 for 2)

 

Tractor trailer marker lights are available  that use .1 amp each lets round to .5 for 4 

 

Gives you about 5 amps for draw excluding brake lights which would be intermittent.  If your charging system is working correctly and you didn't run the battery down starting you will be draining about 2 amps from the battery so it should go about 16 hours...to completely flat something you do not want to do.  but more than enough for your intended use..  Even enough left for a Horn

Edited January 11, 2018 by pfrederi

[WHX?? 48,813]

Ahh ... street legal, I see. A brake light switch such as one of these might work connected in some fashion to the brake band, pedal or linkage.  These are used on motorcycles and such.

As far as wiring go right to the battery via a  terminal block to land wires on and a inline fuse holder to protect against shorts. a 10 to 15 amp fuse would be plenty. I personally would measure the amp drawn and go a little bigger than the measured amp draw.

Edited January 11, 2018 by WHX14

[Jack Oldham 2]

3 hours ago, WHX14 said:

Ahh ... street legal, I see. A brake light switch such as one of these might work connected in some fashion to the brake band, pedal or linkage.  These are used on motorcycles and such.

As far as wiring go right to the battery via a  terminal block to land wires on and a inline fuse holder to protect against shorts. a 10 to 15 amp fuse would be plenty. I personally would measure the amp drawn and go a little bigger than the measured amp draw.

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of these hadn't heard or seen of them until now. Looks like a neat and tidy method of making it work cheap to. As for fuse thanks for the guidance on what size to use. But i would mostly always put a fuse in line in order to protect it. You explained how to wire it but I'm sill not quiet getting you  any chance you would draw up a rough diagram to show me what you mean. Thanks for the help again

5 hours ago, pfrederi said:

 

We have same rating but apply it most to Deep cycle batteries

 

Deep cycle batteries are rated in Amp hours  a 32AH battery should deliver 32 amps for 1 hour or 3.2 amps for 10 hours, but it would be completely discharged.  Starting batteries do not last long if they are completely discharged 

 

Starting batteries here tend to be rated for Cranking Amps and Cold Cranking amps  CA is the number of amps a battery can deliver for 30 seconds before the battery voltage drops to 7.2 at 32 degrees F   (CCA is same test at 0F)  That kind of rating is more reflective of the batteries ability to start something.

Ok yeah i have heard of the CCA being used to measure now you mention it and cheers for the workings of the rough time it should run for very helpful 

[Sarge 3,463]

You could easily use a brake light switch , door switch or similar off of a car, motorcycle ,truck or whatever from a wrecking yard. It just needs either a plunger or arm to actuate it. Most are already wired to work as a normally open circuit - when the switch is pressed it will close the circuit and activate the lamps. Just make sure the switch has two wire contacts , some are single wire types that will complete a ground to be used with dome lamps and such - you want a two wire switch that can simply complete the circuit when closed. As mentioned before , it can be mounted to work off the brake pedal at the floorboard, the rod linkage to the brake band/hydro or at the transmission itself. You'll have to use your imagination to figure out the mounting to your particular machine.

 

Sarge