314-H snapping drive belts

[Fordiesel69 263]

Video of belt flapping:

https://youtu.be/op6Te0zSiAI

 

I think the jiggling of the belt is making it rub the two L brackets.  The two fingers on engine are far away and do not contact the belt.  Cannot upload pics as the forum is limited to 1.94MB.  My camera cannot go that low.  I reduced the image size and it looks like crap and is worthless.  Why is the photo limit 1.94mb in 2018?    

 

 

This is the best I can do without destroying photo quality.  Genuine wheel horse belts are used.  

[Sarge 3,463]

The photo/upload size is limited for non-members. If you become a supporter the limit goes away - for the amount of information available here the cost is very minimal and certainly worth it. For a site like this to exist and be free and open to all there has to be some source of support to keep it going - otherwise, we'd lose it as so many others eventually do....or it would simply get sold off. The more we can build this site with supporting membership, the better for all of us. Not to preach, but the collective knowledge base here is an extremely valuable source of information, it would really hurt if we lost it.

 

Sarge

[rmaynard 15,594]

I don't know if my eyes were deceiving me or what, but in the video, the idler does not appear to be rotating.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

I suppose they thought the opposed twin cylinder was a smoother running engine as my 520s don't have all the fingers and belt supports, also they don't have the manual idler tension engagement, anyways on the video you really can't see what's going on back at the fan/pump pulley area, wonder if that's what's causing your "jumping" belt , Jeff.

Edited January 14, 2018 by WVHillbilly520H

[pfrederi 17,866]

1 hour ago, rmaynard said:

I don't know if my eyes were deceiving me or what, but in the video, the idler does not appear to be rotating.

 

 

[squonk 41,320]

Something wearing/  cutting the belt. That 2nd pic of the belt on the hood tells it all. Belt is being shaved on the outside edge by something. You say the idler is new. Did you put the spacer behind the new pulley so it spins? 

Edited January 14, 2018 by squonk

[953 nut 55,756]

2 hours ago, rmaynard said:

I don't know if my eyes were deceiving me or what, but in the video, the idler does not appear to be rotating.

Watched it a couple of times and looked like it wasn't turning too.

[Desko 610]

That pully is definitely not turning! It looks as if you belt has alot of pressure on it also. 

[wallfish 17,079]

Must be an optical illusion on the idler. Certainly looks like it it isn't rotating but that thing would end up hot and smoking if it wasn't and he's looking right at it live.

The belt is obviously rubbing something on the outside flat by looking at the pics of it but no pics of the inside.

Look for the shiney spots and missing paint on all the pieces near the entire belt route and that will show exactly where it's hitting and/or rubbing. The left side of that bottom guide could be the culprit. It looks shiney and could be sharp. Or the right side of the top one. Not sure if those corners can be bent down a little or not but that may help. Those edges should be curved a little and shouldn't be sharp at all.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

Watch the last very few seconds of his video again, the pulley IS definitely spinning , yes at the beginning the lighting is not the greatest but you can see the light at the top of pulley shimmering in motion, like @wallfish said above if it wasn't I'm sure @Fordiesel69 would notice that his newly replaced Toro pulley was locked up, I'm still thinking something in the pump/fan pulley shaft area is the culprit that's causing the vibrations in the belt when the RPMs are brought up but since I don't have the manual engagement I'm just guessing here, Jeff. 

[Fordiesel69 263]

Comfirmed idler is spinning, the upper and lower l bracket do indeed have lots of shiney spots but so does my low hour 314-h and it does not eat belts.  I will remove the l brackets.  The belt is dancing so much it is rubbing those brackets that are absent in your attached pic with the twin engine.

 

Also the pump pulley is mint.

 

The only side note is the belt does ride against the inner most lip of the idler pulley, and it did with the old one too.  The spacer is factory so I know it is correct becuase I also compared it to the low hour 314-H.  It does not ride ON THE LIP, it just kinda rides against it thru you will see the worn paint it you look closely.  

 

 

[wallfish 17,079]

The lower left corner of the bottom L bracket looks bent UP, shiney and sharp but we already see what looking at a computer screen can do to perception.

What about the belt guard? Could the top edge in the front be bent down, (near the PTO)? I'm just throwing out WAGs but ya never know. It's got to be the leading edge of something, (going with the belt direction of travel) that cuts into a belt.

I believe some belt slap is normal when throttling up and down but it may be possible to get it less severe by changing the idler tension spring. Does your other 314 have that much belt movement?

[squonk 41,320]

12 hours ago, Fordiesel69 said:

Comfirmed idler is spinning, the upper and lower l bracket do indeed have lots of shiney spots but so does my low hour 314-h and it does not eat belts.  I will remove the l brackets.  The belt is dancing so much it is rubbing those brackets that are absent in your attached pic with the twin engine.

 

Also the pump pulley is mint.

 

The only side note is the belt does ride against the inner most lip of the idler pulley, and it did with the old one too.  The spacer is factory so I know it is correct becuase I also compared it to the low hour 314-H.  It does not ride ON THE LIP, it just kinda rides against it thru you will see the worn paint it you look closely.  

 

 

Try tweaking the arm the idler attaches to so the belt does not hit the lip. How about any bushings that idler arm may have? if it's wobbling any that lip will cut the edge of the belt.

Edited January 15, 2018 by squonk

[cleat 6,331]

As far as the flapping goes, at least 2 of my 520's are actually worse than yours.

 

Don't wear the belts though.

 

The bushings in the belt tensioner tend to wear and when they fail, the tensioner itself gets worn.

This will cause the tensioner to sit at a slight angle instead of being parallel to the belt.

 

I would double check that everything is good with the tensioner assembly as that would likely be the only thing that could be causing

your issues.

[AMC RULES 37,134]

Refer back to Bob's post #17 here...

how are you using the tractor, what are you doing when the belt breaks? 

[squonk 41,320]

Being a hydro, I doubt there's a lot of shock load on the belt.

[Fordiesel69 263]

Just plowing snow.  Tires break loose at approx 1/2 governor I think, based on sound.  The gov never goes to wide open.    

[clem 28]

The pivot rod that the tensioner pulley bolts on, wears along with the holes that it fits in. This along with some end play will sometimes let that pulley move all over and help destroy a belt. My 417a with honda repower had this problem and the belt would ride off the pulley while shredding. I found some bushings at the hardware for the pivot rod, and also used a 81" green aftermarket belt. No problems yet. Not sure if this is the problem, might be something to look at though.

[illinilefttackle 399]

I have a C-125A- when I first got it, I plowed snow with it for several days- only thing I noticed with slight bit of smoke coming from idler area. Finally I investigated it- my idler was frozen- belt showed signs of rubbing- but did not break. I don't think your belt is breaking from rubbing something- I think it has to catch an edge of something stationary ( maybe while flapping) to break it. Are your guides up by the engine drive pulley adjusted correctly- I think I can see them in the video behind the drive pulley- they look too tight. Hope you find your answer- its frustrating, I know- Al

[AMC RULES 37,134]

Can you rule this thought out? 

 

 

[wallfish 17,079]

2 hours ago, AMC RULES said:

Can you rule this thought out? 

 

Oooooo, good thinking Craig! That could explain why he can't really find anything while looking at it when it's sitting still but the angles of the pulleys sure will change under heavy load.

Edited January 17, 2018 by wallfish

[Fordiesel69 263]

Guides on engine are far far away from belt.  And frame is good with no cracks.  When I bought it there were bolts missing.  I fixed that with new bolts.

[Fordiesel69 263]

I am gunna take off the two L backets like on the twins and see what happens.  There is shiney metal on them so the belt must be hitting it at times,

[edgro 677]

When my c175 started eating belts, the tensioner was jumping alot. I found the pivot bushings for the idler we're shot. Replaced them, and have not had belt problems since

[HankB 16]

Hi all, 

Been a while... But that's because my Wheel Horses just seem to keep going. Until a couple days ago. My 314-H started making a slapping noise when the drive belt was tensioned and did that for a minute or so before it threw the belt. This is one orf the threads I checked to try to make sure that the belt I was ordering was the correct one (and that part did work out, no pun intended.)

 

Today I was installing the new belt  and ran into an issue with the new belt jumping off the idler. I studied the pictures and made sure I had everything routed correctly. I checked the guards mounted on the engine. I thought maybe the side cover was responsible for keeping the belt in place on the idler and made sure I pressed it inboard before tightening it (and the footboard) to  minimize clearance. None of this helped. I tried cranking the engine with the side cover off and watched the belt walk off the idler with about 1 foot of belt travel. I checked and double checked the idler for play and bad bearings but everything felt good.

 

I took everything back off turned the belt around so it was travelling in the other direction. That seems to have solved the problem, at least long enough to run the tractor down to the end of the drive and back. It's a bit of a puzzle. Perhaps the belt had taken a set all coiled up in the packaging. I had removed it and laid it flat on a table so it could relax a few days before I got 'round to fixing this, but perhaps there was a permanent set or the belt was defective. I'll keep my fingers crossed the next time I mow, hoping that this is a permanent solution.

 

Anyway, this has nothing to do with a belt breaking prematurely, but this thread includes a lot of things to check when replacing a belt so I thought I'd share my findings here rather than start a new thread. (If the mods prefer that I put this in its own thread, let me know and I'll do that.)

 

Thanks!