Gear Oil level in 2 stage blower gearbox.

[Steve_O 25]

How much gear oil does the right angle gear box in a two stage blower take?  (79361 blower / peerless 1000-014 gearbox).

Is this a' turn it up on end and fill to the top' deal, or 'leave horizontal and fill to drain plug deal?' (maybe 5/16" depth).

Manuals are silent on this, or I have reading comprehension challenges.

 

 

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/4093-gearbox-snowthrower-peerless-1000-014-iplpdf/

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/2563-snowthrower-44in-1996-1998-2-stage-79361-om-ipl-snpdf/

 

[Kurt-NEPA 755]

From the Peerless manual.

 

[Steve_O 25]

Thanks Kurt,

Do you have a link to the manual?  I've only found the parts list.

[Kurt-NEPA 755]

40 minutes ago, Steve_O said:

Do you have a link to the manual?  I've only found the parts list.

 

I think I got it from the Peerless web site several years ago.  Anyway, PM me your email addy and I'll send it to you.

 

Kurt 

[wallfish 16,985]

I got sick of checking mine all the time since it leaked a little and it was first noticed in the middle winter. Couldn't tear it down to replace the seals in the middle of winter because the snow would certainly drop big as soon as it was out of commission if I did. So I filled the gear case with Lubriplate 105 engine assembly grease. I have seen many a gear box filled with grease from the factory instead of gear oil so I thought "what the hell", it'll get me through the winter". That was 4 or 5 years ago and never changed it or did the seals and haven't had any issues with the gear box or gear oil leaking out since. I do squeeze a little more in each fall but that's about it. The gear box is completely full of the grease, not just the bottom for the gear oil to ride up on the gear to lubricate. No real worry about it needing to cool since it's only used in the cold and snow.

 The grease is light and stays solid until the gears start moving and then it liquefies into oil. I think the exterior of the grease around the case stays solid from the cold because it doesn't leak out of the seals or the gasket.

Just $0.02 worth of what worked for me.

[Kurt-NEPA 755]

1 hour ago, wallfish said:

 Lubriplate 105 engine assembly grease

 

I like that approach.  I'll get some 

[Steve_O 25]

Thanks

 

Here's a link to the manual on another site: 
http://www.wfmfiles.com/download/Tecumseh-Peerless_Motion_Drive_System_-_Transmissions_&_Differentials(691218).pdf

Edited December 4, 2017 by Steve_O

[WHX?? 48,783]

What was your thinking on using the lubriplate instead of regular grease John @wallfish? I am in the middle of a deuce refresh and was thing of adding some zerks right over the bushings on the auger shaft and running grease instead of oil. Thoughts on this fellas? I guess I would worry about getting grease the thrust bearing in back of the worm gear.

 

@Kurt-NEPA what was your source on the auger end insert bearings. I can find the bearings all day but the flanges with the zerks escapes me.

 

[wallfish 16,985]

59 minutes ago, WHX21 said:

was thing of adding some zerks right over the bushings on the auger shaft and running grease instead of oil

The Lubiplate 105 grease comes in a hand squeeze tube and easily fills through the drain plug. Some oil from it may leak out when you open the plug but the majority of the grease will stay. I just keep topping it off once each year. Only takes a couple minutes so not sure you really need to "Zerk it". Doubt you can use it through a grease zerk anyway unless you find something else to use for a grease gun loading tube. Thick wheel bearing type grease can get pretty stiff in freezing temps so not sure about using that. I've seen plenty of gearboxes loaded with regular thick grease but none which uses a worm gear inside.

I only decided to use it because I was too lazy to pull it all apart and fix the seals. Then just stuck with it because the problem was solved. If you have new seals you should just go with the gear oil as it's designed.

Curious if any other guys like using this stuff or if they have had any issues. No problem for me and been using it in the same blower gearbox for years. It gets worked hard every year too.

 

[bc.gold 3,403]

Corn head grease many are using it on cases that leak for example an old steering box, the snow thrower for my Simplicity 9020 calls for corn head grease.

 

[Kurt-NEPA 755]

1 hour ago, WHX21 said:

@wallfish

 

@Kurt-NEPA what was your source on the auger end insert bearings. I can find the bearings all day but the flanges with the zerks escapes me.

 

 

From my notes

 

Auger Shaft is 1"
For my bearing modification I used Cam Lock Bearings no. SA205-16.  1" ID. Spherical OD  from US Bearings and Belts -  TSC has them as 1195167

Flanges are T52MSTRZP-1  TSC has them as 1198717.  I got them from Ebay as 52MSTR.  They are 52 mm ID flanges for 7/8 and 1" bearings.
The ones I ordered were Fafnir 52MSTR ZR
I had to fabricate a 1/4" spacer to move the auger shaft bearing inboard.  Without the spacer, the bearing came out past the end of the shaft.

For the Flange 52 in T52MSTRZP means 52mm.

 

My flanges don't have zerks.  I don't think they need them.  The zerks don't grease the bearings, just the flange to bearing housing.  Once the bearing housings self align and are clamped down they don't rotate.

 

Hope this helps.

[WHX?? 48,783]

37 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Thick wheel bearing type grease can get pretty stiff in freezing temps

Never thought about that and I do have lubriplate on the shelf for engine builds. I have the gearbox apart now and cleaned up and all looks good in there so will be starting from fresh. Waiting on new seals. I'll nix the zerk idea on the insert bearings too. Just figured the impeller bearing had them so why not the augers. These bearings are cheap enough tho and easy to change out.

 

Thanks for the part nos. Kurt pretty much verifies what I have. Went to get them from TSC and yup... of course ...rack was empty!

 

This is my bearing go to place from here on out. Their prices are good and unlike others the shipping is way less than the part! They also have the 52mm flanges in two and three hole configs.

https://www.thebigbearingstore.com/sa205-16-1-insert-bearing/

[Kurt-NEPA 755]

24 minutes ago, WHX21 said:

 

Thanks for the part nos. Kurt pretty much verifies what I have. Went to get them from TSC and yup... of course ...rack was empty!

 

Sounds like my local TSC.  They never have things in stock, and if they do, its one piece in an opened package.  Lucky that I have 4 other store within an hours drive.

 

I have to try out the Big Bearing Store.  Looks promising.  Thanks

[wallfish 16,985]

41 minutes ago, WHX21 said:

Just figured the impeller bearing had them so why not the augers. These bearings are cheap enough tho and easy to change out.

Misunderstood your zerk location.

I thought cam lock bearings were to wide to fit between the side of the blower and the auger edge because of the cam collar. But these measure up with just drilling new holes. Plus have the grease zerk with the hole in the outer race. 

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Bearings/Cast-Iron-4-Bolt-Flange-Mount-Bearings/1-4-Bolt-Flange-Bearing-1-205-16-4.axd

 

I had new "gold ones" from Toro before figuring this out when Duke was building his snow chucker, so need to do this upgrade for next year. Never installed them myself, yet.

 

[WHX?? 48,783]

18 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Misunderstood your zerk location

I don't think you did John I was talking putting them in the gear housing AND the outboard auger bearings or bushings. I am going to do like you and just give her a shot of lubri through the oil plug every season.

 

I had thought of using those cast flanges but Kurt had mentioned that the insert bearings can move a bit for alignment before snugging down.

1 hour ago, Kurt-NEPA said:

Once the bearing housings self align

I bet those would work great if the auger shaft is fairly true yet. Somebody was chucking rocks with this one tho.

When you say the gold ones are you meaning Toro is quite proud of the OEM ones?

https://www.ebay.com/i/283328479154?chn=ps

I did really think they were that bad priced and would be plug and play but have them on a be-hind that always need replacing. I'll take bearings over bushings any day although a guy coulda put zerks in the OEM ones.

I should go see if I can find Duke's thread. Might be some good tips in there.

I have already started fabbing that center support Kurt.

I'll also be adding paddles Jeff @WVHillbilly520H mentioned in another thread and attempt to somewhat balance the impeller. It was bent bad and @Achto did some welding and straitening for me ...thanks Dan...

[WHX?? 48,783]

57 minutes ago, Kurt-NEPA said:

 

Sounds like my local TSC.  They never have things in stock, and if they do, its one piece in an opened package.

Ain't that the truth! Here they are on opposite sides of the state! Takes forever for them to restock too.

[WHX?? 48,783]

Just noticed this in that link 'Fish...

 Cast iron construction with self-aligning ball bearing insert and grease zerk.

I just might run these.

Any chance someone who has one together can check that "B" dimension to see if ther is room?  

Edited January 7, 2019 by WHX21

[wallfish 16,985]

33 minutes ago, WHX21 said:

When you say the gold ones are you meaning Toro is quite proud of the OEM ones?

Yes. Plus they are only bushings, not what I consider a bearing. The wet dirt and grime gets in there easily to grind them down.

Just measured real quick from the side to the auger and came up with 1 3/8" . So maybe they won't just fit right in there. I'll have to take a look at Kurt's to see what he did with the collars. Didn't try pushing the auger section towards the center though. Maybe I can get a better look at it tomorrow in the light and measure both sides.

Duke added quite a bit of info on that thread as he went through it completely.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

1 hour ago, WHX21 said:

I don't think you did John I was talking putting them in the gear housing AND the outboard auger bearings or bushings. I am going to do like you and just give her a shot of lubri through the oil plug every season.

 

I had thought of using those cast flanges but Kurt had mentioned that the insert bearings can move a bit for alignment before snugging down.

I bet those would work great if the auger shaft is fairly true yet. Somebody was chucking rocks with this one tho.

When you say the gold ones are you meaning Toro is quite proud of the OEM ones?

https://www.ebay.com/i/283328479154?chn=ps

I did really think they were that bad priced and would be plug and play but have them on a be-hind that always need replacing. I'll take bearings over bushings any day although a guy coulda put zerks in the OEM ones.

I should go see if I can find Duke's thread. Might be some good tips in there.

I have already started fabbing that center support Kurt.

I'll also be adding paddles Jeff @WVHillbilly520H mentioned in another thread and attempt to somewhat balance the impeller. It was bent bad and @Achto did some welding and straitening for me ...thanks Dan...

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F291374285143

51 minutes ago, WHX21 said:

Just noticed this in that link 'Fish...

 Cast iron construction with self-aligning ball bearing insert and grease zerk.

I just might run these.

Any chance someone who has one together can check that "B" dimension to see if ther is room?  

I started to go this route but IMHO after quite a bit of measuring decided they wouldn't work and just went with the same flanges as the impeller bearing or single stage auger bearings but you have to make a 1/4" spacer for them to work properly...only thing I haven't done yet is the impeller to auger gear box brace...

[wallfish 16,985]

56 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

 

That sure looks good done that way.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

6 minutes ago, wallfish said:

That sure looks good done that way.

Thanks, I even made a cap for the outside sealed with RVT...

[Kurt-NEPA 755]

35 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Thanks, I even made a cap for the outside sealed with RVT...

 

I like that idea, I may steal it.

[WHX?? 48,783]

Good idea on the outside cap Jeff.  Those are the flanges with the zerk for the re-lubes I was lookin for. I just pulled the trigger on a pair of regular ones If Kurt says they're ok good enough for me. He's had a deuce alot longer than I.

 

Another question does a guy still need the end bolts in the auger shaft when doing this mod? I didn't study them enough on tear down to figure out what they do. I would guess to keep the augers from shifting back and forth?

[Kurt-NEPA 755]

10 minutes ago, WHX21 said:

Another question does a guy still need the end bolts in the auger shaft when doing this mod? I didn't study them enough on tear down to figure out what they do. I would guess to keep the augers from shifting back and forth?

 

I didn't use the end bolts.

[WHX?? 48,783]

Some pics, one side auger came off fairly easy..I was able to impact the bolt out and free things up...  the other side not so much. Bolt head twisted off and brown welded.

After getting the assembly in a drill press and getting the bolt out and some  heat wrench work got it loose.

 

The crack by the right angle drive. The carriage bolt holes were the right angle mounts were gone so Dan welded up some hefty flat washers over the squares for standard bolts and a gusset in the corner ..good to go.

 

The maimed impeller.

 

Starting to get things cleaned up. I'm guessing this was not as much a basket case as others ...front worm gear case cleaned up nice.

Edited January 8, 2019 by WHX21
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