Thee phase compressor what to do ?

[ACman 7,621]

This is why I was a HVAC installer not a technician  . I just had to put  in the new stuff and make it look pretty . Not to say I haven’t done my share of wiring (low/high voltage) , replacing capacitors , contractors , motors , ect. Mostly residential but I’ve done some really big commercial jobs too . Most likely it’s the capacitor on that cheap Marathon motor. I’ll try to get a video later . I do however have some really good contacts to reach out to . My step cousin owns a scrapyard but they also own what I’d call a used industrial supply house . They tear down and clean out old plants . This place (which is the old Kelsey-Hayes wheel plant) is packed full of goodies. @Sarge you would love this place . They really try to recycle/reuse anything that’s truly not scrap.  They even opened up a “U-pick a-Part” for automotive, RV’s , boats , garden tractors, ect . Also my best friend works for Kroger as a technician repairing all their equipment. So there’s still hope on the big compressor. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by ACman

[JPWH 6,123]

If all above checks out. Look at the 20 amp breaker. It needs to be an hacr type like used on refrigeration equipment to handle the start up current without tripping. 

[Racinbob 11,251]

Actually Jay, he doesn't need that but most are. I think we've determined that his wiring isn't the problem but good thinking.   Jeff, I know you'll keep us posted on your search for a motor. You 're gonna keep posting this cool stuff and I'm gonna have to take a day trip.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Racinbob

[Sarge 3,463]

There is an extensive base of factories that closed in my immediate area - I got a lot of equipment parts that way over the years despite what it did to the local economy . From my area towards Chicago , there are a lot of places that sell industrial and parts - I can get nearly anything I need . The motor I used on my SpeedAire came out of a co-worker's corn crib lift and was built to handle a high load starting cycle easily . The 3ph motor that was on the pump was a replacement that was nearly new - it lives in the welding shop next to me on his air compressor - the whole deal cost us nothing , just some trading around . Over the years I've had to pass up a lot of great machinery - just don't have the room here and storing that type of stuff is nearly impossible to prevent damage over time when it sits idle .

 

I remember back in the day when the Kelsey-Hayes wheels were in style - almost every GM at our high school had either their rims or Cragars....lol .

 

Those Marathon motors used to be pretty good - but in the last recent years they've showed the lack of quality parts - especially those caps and some have had wire issues too . The smaller tank and lower cfm numbers means they cycle a lot and are barely built to handle that number of starts .

 

Sarge

[ACman 7,621]

I still have to checkout our farm and our old AC dealership as we sold/stocked motors for farmers. Then the electric company brought 3ph power down past my cousins farm some years back but don’t know if they made the switch. They did but the newer bins near the road for a reason. This wheelchair really slows me down . So moving on back to the trade deal . I’m waiting to here back from this guy hopefully soon. If I pick this one up for $150 with tools I’ll trade it towards the big compressor and keep mine . I’ll keep the impact and ratchet for myself as they hardly look used . In my head that makes the compressor around $75-100 . It’s a 2003 model oil less 30gal.  Thanks for all the help guys with your help I’ll get this figured out .

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by ACman

[Racinbob 11,251]

That sounds like a plan Jeff. Definitely keeping the Kobalt over that Craftsman. Apparently in 2003 Sears was still playing games with the horsepower ratings. Let's see.....6hp.........120 volts........15 amps...............

 

They used to do that with their vacuum cleaners too.

[ACman 7,621]

... The guy even described how they rated things back then in his ad so I believe he a straight up guy and my son is on his way to go pick it up  . Here’s his description...

Single cylinder, oil free. 6 HP is peak power, but air compressors aren't rated that way anymore. In today's ratings this would fall around 1.5 - 2hp. (Nothing you plug in to a household 110 volt outlet is going to be much over 2hp, the math just doesn't work). With that out of the way, according to the markings on the tank this was made in 2003 and it has spent it's time in my basement so it's still in great shape. I used it to paint a couple motorycles and run some smaller air tools but recently replaced it with a 220 volt compressor to have more capacity. 
 

Even though my Kolbalt has a issue it does have that big cast iron lump on top which I believe is a better unit than the oil free on the Craftsman.  

Edited November 24, 2017 by ACman

[ACman 7,621]

I got to say this Craftsman looks brand new ... It feels like I stole this compressor  . I could flip it easy make some $ and keep the air tools . This one do doesn’t trip the breaker but it’s much louder. I may just swip swap the the pressure switch as the Craftsman has a heavier cord , nicer gauges and regulator over to the kolbalt. The guy will never know  ! I talked to used industrial supplier and he said the single phase motors leave as soon as he gets one but he may be interested in the compressor . If the price or trade (this place is packed full of goodies) is right for the big one , it may just disappear.

Edited November 25, 2017 by ACman

[953 nut 55,910]

34 minutes ago, ACman said:

doesn’t trip the breaker but it’s much louder.

I have mine in a separate building so I don't have to listen to it. Has 1" PVC under ground and a low point drain for any condensation.

[Sarge 3,463]

The oil less unit is a single stage or most of that type are single stage - they will somewhat put out a decent volume but can wear quickly and the pressure will drop first , followed by a serious drop in volume . It all depends on how much you will use it and how much demand you're going to put on the compressor . 90% of the time once you get a better unit you start buying larger demand tools and equipment to use with a compressor - that turns into a higher load on it and then they start showing their true colors . Many guys start out with a unit that is far too small to run anything past a small nail gun , they go into the next range of pumps and then decide to upgrade the other equipment to include stuff like a blasting cabinet - it's all downhill from there . That big 2-stage industrial unit might be louder and harder to deal with initially , but in the long run it's a better investment and allows you a wider range of tools and equipment to be used with that heavy duty pump and such .

 

There are certain things that spending the extra coin and doing the extra work initially is a smarter investment - air compressors are at the top of that list along with welding machines .  There is the option of trading upwards , but you generally spend more money that way in the long run . The biggest unit you can afford will provide far longer service life and once you get into well made industrial units they can outlive you despite heavy use .

 

Just trying to point out some common mistakes people make . I know the one limiting factor for most is always the money to invest into a piece of equipment - it does help to know the options and drawbacks of that investment to prevent costly mistakes that can come up pretty quickly when a light duty machine is destroyed trying to do too much work .  When that happens you have to start from scratch again and that hurts the wallet .

 

Sarge

[ACman 7,621]

@Sarge the Craftsman unit is going to be traded for the big compressor along with some labor . I’m not a big fan of oil less units either but it will suit his needs .  I just wasn’t to happy when my boy traded off my compressor for one I can’t use at the moment. I have to have a compressor hence me finding a cheap compressor for the trade . My Kolbalt starting problem will get sorted and used until I find a single phase motor for the Ingersoll . If I sell the Ingersoll it will be getting replaced with a similar unit . As the saying goes there’s no replacement for displacement.

Edited November 25, 2017 by ACman

[Sarge 3,463]

Absolutely agree . I just see too many folks making the mistake of trying to use a light duty small compressor for bigger tasks and burning them up . Aside from light duty painting or nail guns , single stage pumps have no place in my world - prefer to get it done right the first time . I lucked out when I found this twin stage SpeedAire and it was a free one at that - cost me some in the end in work to get it in an running but it's served me well over 20yrs now and the caps blowing out have been it's only down time to date . It will give you a heart attack if standing near it when the thing fires up a cycle , but it's worth the noise in performance .

 

Sarge

[squonk 41,464]

Those oil less will either wear out fast or wear out your ears fast. Noisy as hell. And that "cheap" Marathon motor on the Kolbalt, you would be shocked to find out the price of that motor. right before I left the hospital the one in our compressor failed. The retainer clip for the overload reset button broke. The button ended up getting into the armature and the Genie came out of it.  That motor was special to that compressor. I was pricing them it up and it was almost cheaper to get a whole new unit. Of course a different one could have been made to work but that exact motor was nuts. 

[ACman 7,621]

Sounds like most of the furnaces I have serviced. If the part wasn’t under warranty, it was about the same price as the furnace . It’s the throw away world we live in today and that’s how they get us .

Edited November 25, 2017 by ACman

[Sarge 3,463]

That is the exact reason I hunt down older industrial equipment - despite the number of years it's been in service already it's not unusual that equipment of that quality can live for a very long time yet . Put some effort into the older stuff and it will outlive you easily in comparison to anything made today . Even the so-called industrial level pumps made currently aren't nearly as well built as they were 30yrs ago and there are plenty of those old models left around that would do the job for another 30-40yrs . This stuff is no different than our Horses - try to find a modern garden tractor that will give a 40+yr service life...

 

Sarge

[Lee1977 6,833]

 

I haven't read the complete tread. My guess is that if there is nothing wrong with your wiring on the 20 amp circuit, it's either your head pressure release is working right, or the check valve between the head and tank isn't holding and letting the pressure back to the head.

[moe1965 746]

I had the same issue hooking up my bridgeport milling machine.  i bought a phase converter that changes 220 into 3 phase.  it was around 100 bucks if i remember right. i have never had an issue with it. here is the info.  Phase A Matic, Inc  Ph 661 947 8484  or phase-a-matic.com      give them a call   sometimes you can find the units on ebay as well 

[ohiofarmer 3,276]

 I have a monster compressor on wheels designed to tow to jobs and paint barn roofs.The tank is probably ten gallons or so. It sits there idling along until an air valve actuates the compression cycle. Essentially it makes hardly any noise at all for its size. i converted it to run on an electric farm motor and it does great. No problem sand blasting with that one.

 

 It does puke oil out from the crank case which means the crank case is under some pressure. I wish I could figure out where to take it to get it fixed. it is an industrial DeVilbiss.

 

 Good luck on your project