RANT (sorry) Allis Chalmers Blues

[Pullstart 62,913]

So we bought our new place from my in-laws.  Their new barn isn't complete yet, so I am working (tip toeing) around everything as to not upset what's in my new barns.  There wasn't room inside for the just fine-running WD-45 that I bought for my wife, so it's been sitting neglected outside with a bucket over the exhaust stack.  Somehow, the engine still filled with water and became stuck.  I drained the water/oil, filled it as full as I could get it with diesel and let it sit for a week during summer time.  Now I get it to roll over, fire up and it's hurt. 

 

Fast forward from September ish when I got the ole girl running and I finally look into why it's only running on cylinder #1.  I pulled the valve cover tonight and the rocker cross-shaft is broken at the cylinder #4 exhaust valve (end) and that same pushrod is bent and dropped about 1" or more down below the level of the rest.  Three of the exhaust valves are stuck open too.

 

So, I'll be looking for some AC parts... in the midst of trying to still sell our old house that I labored so hard making it a proud gem, getting the new house winter-proof with insulation and window fixins, helping to raise my girls and get ready for this winter's plowing season.

 

 

[charging10 233]

Try Steiner tractor, I bought parts for a ferguson to35 from them, and Im pretty sure they have AC parts too.

[AMC RULES 37,130]

  Some sad news indeed...

always loved to hear the story of how your wife volunteered to drove it 25 miles...  

on treacherous, ice covered roads, through a blizzard, with no coat...just to get it home.   

                  Keep the faith brother, you'll get it going again. 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2017 by AMC RULES

[tunahead72 2,424]

2 hours ago, charging10 said:

Try Steiner tractor, I bought parts for a ferguson to35 from them, and Im pretty sure they have AC parts too.

 

Yes they do:

https://www.steinertractor.com/Allis-Chalmers-WD45

 

Good luck with all this @pullstart, one day at a time as they say.

 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

Keep the faith, I grew up on a B wide front end that my grandfather bought new and C narrow front that my uncle bought used then dad got it but sadly had to sell it to make room for the Kioti, Jeff.

[Cvans 1,009]

Years ago I purchased a WC that had been setting. Fortunately I didn't turn over the engine before checking to see if any of the valves were stuck. One was but was easily fixed. My father in-law helped and came up with an easy way of freeing it up. Started by removing the rocker arms and soaking the valve stem with penetrating oil. After removing the the valve keeper and spring we chucked the valve stem into a 1/2" drill. The drill was able to break the valve loose. While one guy ran the drill the other was flooding the valve stem with penetrating oil. Oscillating the valve stem up and down while rotating it helps to move the oil down through the valve guide. The tractor ran fine for many years and was never tore down after that. 

 

 

 

[ACman 7,618]

@pullstart when the time comes for getting parts I may know a guy or two or three ...  . I’ve got some connections in the AC world . 

[Pullstart 62,913]

35 minutes ago, ACman said:

@pullstart when the time comes for getting parts I may know a guy or two or three ...  . I’ve got some connections in the AC world . 

 

I'd love to meet up and pick some parts some day, we're only a tank of fuel and a few cups of coffee away from each other!  If I could unpack some day and find my manual, I'd really like to get deeper into this.  Minimum, I'm thinking a good complete head and a set of push rods and the ole girl (the tractor, NOT the MRS!) will be thankful.  Not sure if there's lifter damage or cam carnage...

 

Let me know... the girls and I have a pretty flexible schedule.  (as your PM just chimed in)

[Pullstart 62,913]

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 8:16 AM, AMC RULES said:

  Some sad news indeed...

always loved to hear the story of how your wife volunteered to drove it 25 miles...  

on treacherous, ice covered roads, through a blizzard, with no coat...just to get it home.   

                  Keep the faith brother, you'll get it going again. 

 

 

 

 

For anyone who's wondering about what @AMC RULES is talking about, here's the thread of when we picked it up.  

 

[AMC RULES 37,130]

Always warms my heart to know, there's someone who knows what I'm talking about here.  

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

@pullstart, how about this sweet little B for sale near me...

[Pullstart 62,913]

That's a sweet machine alright.  I should probably get the WD45 back on all 4 cylinders before I drag any more home, less a two day haul.  

[Pullstart 62,913]

Good news / bad news. Tonight I pulled the head.  I couldn't wait, it was bugging me like crazy.  The other night I sprayed some penetrating oil on the stuck valves and today we ran it around a while, all one lung in it's glory then parked it after it was warmed up.  After the head was off, I used a rubber mallet to pop the stuck valves back shut, then open, then shut, until they would open with a quick smack and shut fully by themselves, then ran the mallet down the row for a while to make sure nothing would stick again.  Success on that.  Cylinder 4 has some pretty bad pitting on the top of the cylinder (it must have been down when it was full) and all the sleeves have a pretty noticeable step.  Not knowing how far these big tractors can go before needing a rebuild, am I best off just getting the head and valvetrain back in working condition, or should I re-sleeve it and do an in-frame overhaul?  I have a 3 stone cylinder hone but I'm thinking that wont help to clean up the pitted cylinder.

 

So my for sure list:  one pushrod and the rocker cross shaft.  I'm sure with a head gasket and the one exhaust stud I broke (yeah, that's all just one!) that'll get it running pretty good.

 

Suggestions?

 

I found this video of pulling sleeves, I think I'll be able to do that in-frame.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2ctd0BYOGQ

 

 

[Pullstart 62,913]

Here's a picture of the cylinders.  See #4 has some pretty decent rust damage, far from "cleaning up" with running it.  I know this is half-assed and I might as well not waste my time, but I think I'll find a rocker shaft and a pushrod, then pop the head back on and see how it runs.  I'm anticipating some blow by from that darned #4.

 

 

[diesel cowboy 263]

From the looks of the cylinder you should be ok for a while just cleaning it up real good with a light hone or steel wool and putting it back together.  If it was mine I'd go with cleaning and put it back together to try.  It'll give you an idea of where you need to go next with it.  If you're worried about blow by you could pop the piston and check the end gaps on that cylinder first.  I've done probably 8-9 of the wet sleeve type engines ranging from the customer saying clean it up and make it work as cheap as possible to a complete overhaul I don't care what it costs.

[Pullstart 62,913]

Thanks for the input @diesel cowboy, today I found a rocker assembly and a straight pushrod to boot, along with a wide front end too!  Shhh that part's a surprise for later!  I'll see how it all comes together, I hone stoned the block surface today and will clean the head with a file and hone stone before re-assembly too.

[Cvans 1,009]

It'll run just fine for what your doing if the rings are good. These old low RPM engines are much more forgiving than the newer high speed engines. We had a 1937 JD B that must have set out for years without the exhaust covered before someone got it running again.  Discovered  when I went to install new rings that the cylinders were badly pitted and you could actually see where the old rings had been setting in the cylinders when it rusted up.   After honing the cylinders and installing the new rings it ran fine with no noises. 

[Pullstart 62,913]

Good deal!  Mrs. Pullstart mentioned some day she'd like to try her hand at the local pulls at fair time.  With one lung breathing now it'll barely pull itself!  

[Pullstart 62,913]

Well, last night I pulled the valves, cleaned them up with a wire wheel and then lapped the seats with some valve lapping compound and a drill chucked onto the valve stems.  After honing the head surface and a good bath in the parts washer, re-assembled everything and the head is ready to go back on.  I have a feeling with all the carbon buildup on the exhaust valves, the tractor will be happy for a while.  Oh yeah and the head is mostly orange under all the grime that was caked on!

 

A little tip - I used one of my father in law's large drill presses with a little notched out piece of angle iron welded to a shaft in the chuck to compress the valve springs.  The crank of the handle did a fine job and the drill table was large enough to balance most of the head.

[Pullstart 62,913]

The head is back on, valves all adjusted (manual says .014" warm, most people have found .012" cold is a good start to get to .014"), no start.  I found the intake gasket rings loose, I'll need to figure out why it's not seating, there's no vacuum on the carb because of the leak.  But I'm close!

[Pullstart 62,913]

Oh yeah... and I have compression now!  I think that's the important part. 

 

My oldest is troubled about keeping the secret from Mommy about the wide front end.  I had to explain the difference from keeping secrets and keeping surprises...  Hopefully she doesn't spill the beans before we get the swap done!

[Pullstart 62,913]

Well, things today went from not so bad to worse.  I decided I'd remove the manifold studs and go with new bolts, because I found the threads were questionable on a couple studs and I figured the manifold was just not sealed (warped?) and needed some new clamping force.  Well, I went and snapped two studs off in the head.  One is about 1/4" under the surface of the head, the other is about flush.  I'll try to drill a small hole in each then spray penetrating oil behind them and wait a few more days.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

4 hours ago, pullstart said:

Well, things today went from not so bad to worse.  I decided I'd remove the manifold studs and go with new bolts, because I found the threads were questionable on a couple studs and I figured the manifold was just not sealed (warped?) and needed some new clamping force.  Well, I went and snapped two studs off in the head.  One is about 1/4" under the surface of the head, the other is about flush.  I'll try to drill a small hole in each then spray penetrating oil behind them and wait a few more days.

if you can weld a nut them after you do the drill/spray the heat from the welding will help with removal, also being a maintenance machinist I deal with broken bolts all the time ,sometimes just drilling partially through they wouldn't budge with and "easy out" but drilling clean through like magic they loosen up and come out, hope these tips help, Jeff.

[diesel cowboy 263]

1 hour ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

if you can weld a nut them after you do the drill/spray the heat from the welding will help with removal, also being a maintenance machinist I deal with broken bolts all the time ,sometimes just drilling partially through they wouldn't budge with and "easy out" but drilling clean through like magic they loosen up and come out, hope these tips help, Jeff.

 Plus I've found that the older the tractor/truck/whatever machine that if you can get any sort of bite trying to remove them about 90% of the time they come out even broken bolts.  If you drill all the way through them be careful not to go too far.  There's a chance that the bottom of the hole isn't very thick and you don't want to drill into the water jacket on the head.                     Stewart

[Pullstart 62,913]

I've thought about welding a nut too, currently the tractor is out of a welder's reach in the back barn.  One of the studs is recessed a bit into the head, maybe 1/4".  I was thinking maybe drilling out a short bolt to protect the threads in the head, then welding something on... or just tacking a bead a bit at a time to build up the stud and not weld the head... IF I can get a welder out there.  gotta get the holes drilled first, I suppose.