RJ58 belt slipping and grinding

[GetItBilly 8]

This new to me RJ58 has me feeling like I'm a special kind of stupid. Tried to put a new belt guard on it, wouldn't fit over the pulleys. Found the engine was pushed all the way forward in the frame. So I loosened it up and pushed the engine all the way towards the back, which let the belt cover fit over the pulleys. I messed with the brake rod a bunch, too, making sure the idler pulley tops out just under the belt guard top . So now at this point the belt is slipping so much the tractor will barely move and the trans pulley is still spinning when I'm pushing on the clutch as hard as I can, causing it to grind when shifting.

 

But this is all happening without the belt guard on - I still need to get bolts and spacers. I've read and been told the guard will help with that, I imagine because it pinches the belt so that there's more gap around the pulleys and lets them slip more? Also, the pulleys are rough and I know they need polished out.

 

Finally, the belt on it is an A28, which is 28" inner and 30" outer. I found threads saying a 29" belt is needed - is that the inner or outer measurement? I would hope it's the outer because that means my problem is simply a too-big belt.

 

 

[953 nut 55,844]

3 minutes ago, GetItBilly said:

a 29" belt is needed

That would be an A-27 or 4L-290. Sounds like you have everything worked out in your mind and understand what needs to be done.

[ebinmaine 68,446]

30 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

That would be an A-27 or 4L-290. Sounds like you have everything worked out in your mind and understand what needs to be done.

What he said. 

Clean your pulleys and put the guard on. .... problem solved? 

Many tractors... guard = belt guide. 

[GetItBilly 8]

Thanks for the feedback! New belt is ordered.

[WHX?? 49,177]

Just to throw a monkey wrench into the whole business some guys have reported using a short or longer belt has helped. Would guess it all depends on what has been done to the tractor over the years. I've got a 400 Suburban that has always given me fits in trying to get the belt disengaged while clutched. Let us know how your new belt works there are some other tricks a guy can try.

14 hours ago, GetItBilly said:

I'm a special kind of stupid

Welcome to the club!

13 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Many tractors... guard = belt guide

Not so much so with RJ's & 'Burbs EB but it can't hurt. These models often have a little arm thingy on the motor or a belt stop thingy mounted on the tension pulley to stop/force the belt forward when clutched. Got some pics somewhere if I can find them.

[ebinmaine 68,446]

10 hours ago, WHX12 said:

On 10/16/2017 at 7:46 PM, GetItBilly said:

I'm a special kind of stupid

Welcome to the club!

BIIIGG club. 

 

10 hours ago, WHX12 said:

These models often have a little arm thingy on the motor or a belt stop thingy

Are these the technical names the original engineering board gave them? 

[wallfish 17,083]

Some RJs and Suburbans can be a pain even with the correct belt, pulleys and belt guard. Some have worked perfectly fine right out of the gate while others have taken quite a bit of time to get working right. Stressing the brand new belt helps to remove some of the "memory" in it. I drive up to a wall or tree and dig the tires into the ground to stress and stretch a new belt which helps. The correct length of the spacers for the belt guard makes a difference too. If too short you can shim with washers, if too long you grind a little off. Bending the flat edge of the guard slightly around the engine pulley side can also help. As mentioned, a clean smooth engine pulley is critical, start the engine and use a small wire brush to clean the groove. Adjusting the engine position forward/back and making sure it is square is another thing. There are a bunch of little adjustments which can be done to get it working right. A few curse words is another technique I use so don't forget those!

[ebinmaine 68,446]

2 hours ago, wallfish said:

few curse words is another technique I use so don't forget those!

This works on various other  selected models as well.

[ebinmaine 68,446]

The magnet idea has me thinking. I have some larger ones. I wonder if I stuck one of those to the outside of the drain plug if it would do anything?

[WHX?? 49,177]

Magnets on a belt guard EB???  I'm lost

[GetItBilly 8]

Well, my new A27 belt got delivered really fast and once installed, the belt certainly isn't slipping when I put it in gear. But I also need to go back and readjust the brake, because now it likes to take off as soon as you put it in gear. I worked with the engine pulley some, but it's too pitted...I'm just going to order a new one. 

 

I'll keep working with it but I don't have high hopes of the belt guard helping much when installed. I'm betting a 27.5" belt may be worth trying. 

[GetItBilly 8]

I stand corrected! I don't fully understand the physics of the belt guard. Just did a rough fitting of the guard after making some spacers and I can shift without grinding now, although there are a few weird noises from under the guard when I engage the clutch which I need to figure out. I see where the belt rubs on the bottom and rear of the guard, so I guess that's a good thing because it forces the slack up around the engine pulley?

 

So, lot's of progress, I went from the belt slipping and the tractor going nowhere to almost flipping the tractor the first time I put it in 2nd under higher rpms.

Edited October 18, 2017 by GetItBilly

[ebinmaine 68,446]

5 hours ago, WHX12 said:

Magnets on a belt guard EB???  I'm lost

HAHAHAHA !!!!

 

Obviously  - I'M  lost.....

Stupid  phone switched pages on me and I didn't catch it. 

[953 nut 55,844]

Glad you got it straightened out, those RJs and Suburbans will do a wheelie if you don't add some front weight.

[AMC RULES 37,134]

  The potential is always there...

and a variety of conditions can/will exacerbate it.  

[WHX?? 49,177]

Don't fret too much about the noises under the belt guard....if not all of my horses make the sound of the devil ther but none have spit out chewed up belts yet...definitely something to monitor tho.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,102]

13 hours ago, GetItBilly said:

I'll keep working with it but I don't have high hopes of the belt guard helping much when installed. I'm betting a 27.5" belt may be worth trying. 

An A-27 belt is in fact 1/2" x 29" around the outside.

 

Garry

[GetItBilly 8]

Yup, sorry, I meant a 29.5" belt, but I jumped the gun on that anyway....the belt guard solved it.

 

Thanks everyone for the help! 

 

I see where the bottom edge of the belt guard dishes out a bit towards the engine/trans side, so I see what you mean about adding washers to the spacers, which will push the guard out and give the belt a little more room on the bottom of its path. I think adding some washers are the right next step since the marks the belt left on the guard are all along the bottom and up into the trans pulley a little. I assume the ideal condition is the belt only contacting the guard when the clutch is in, but that may be tough for my old tractor and a brand new belt.

Edited October 19, 2017 by GetItBilly

[wallfish 17,083]

10 hours ago, GetItBilly said:

 I assume the ideal condition is the belt only contacting the guard when the clutch is in, but that may be tough for my old tractor and a brand new belt.

That's correct.

Also be careful of the trans pulley rubbing on the guard in the center. More common on suburbans for some reason but it happens with the RJs too. All that rubbing equals noise plus it could eventually wear a hole into the guard. All those LITTLE tweaks will eventually get you there. Sometimes you adjust one thing and it affects the other end. Even loosening the bolts and adjusting it in the hole and re-tighten can make a difference. Glad you got it going in the right direction.