Kohler vs. Tecumseh

[jellyghost 378]

I was recently offered a Sears St/16 at a fair price.  I really like 70s era wheel horses, and the cast iron Kohler engines.  If this Sears tractor had a Kohler, I would have already said yes!  But... It has a 16hp Tecumseh.  I don't even know if there are rebuild kits for this engine.  Are these large Tecumsehs decent engines?  How do they compare to the Kohlers that Wheel Horse was using during the same era?

 

http://www.tractordata.com/lawn-tractors/001/3/9/1398-sears-st16.html

[TravelinJavelin 620]

if its a overhead valve run as fast as you can away from the tecumseh the electrical if bad you'l have to mortgage the farm and also in my humble opinion the torque is not the same compared to the kohler..... tecumseh's you got to rev high to get the same output from half throttle kohler just my experience

[squonk 41,109]

   First of all lots of people here know how I feel about Tecky's. This is a Tecky tool        That being said, I'm sure there's some that have given good service. 

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,314]

I myself have always been a Kohler guy...nothing beats an old K-Series for reliability, ease of repair, or power. Had a couple Tecumseh powered tractors for a while...wasnt impressed and got rid of them. My opinion (along with most people here I'm sure lol) is that the best combination is a Wheel Horse with a Kohler 

[slammer302 2,155]

My experiences with tekys are if they run good they are great but ive not had much luck bringing them back from the dead. 

[Searcher60 209]

I spoke to the owners of two Wheel Horse dealers past week. Senior people in here know them both. One told me that Onan engines run forever and never blow up. He was a very, very, long time, well known, knowledgeable Toro/Wheel Horse dealer in the NE. I also spoke to another very well know dealer in the Mid-Atlantic that has repeatively told me Onan engines are going to  blow up, when is the question.  I had a WH with a vertical shaft Tecky that must have had a gazillion hours on it. I did a valve job and fixed the governor and it was a screamer.  Auto trans, Tecumseh, cut grass and ran great.

 

Asking if a Tecky or Kohler is the best engine is like asking which oil to use. Everybody has an opinion. Kohler engines have the balance shafts/gears which people in here call handgrenades due to the claimed failure rate. Tecumseh's are damn good engines. You can't mow a steep slope with a lot of Kohler's because they do not have pressurized lubrication. Well, Tecumseh and Onan engines do have an oil pump with pressure lube. Onan has both pressure lube and oil filter. Some Tecumseh engines have balance shafts and gears. 

 

My opinion. If you do not have patience, small engine knowledge, and the proper tools, buy a Kohler. The Onan and Tecumseh do not like to be mistreated, rigged with coat hangers and duct tape because their owner is to cheap or ignorant to maintain and repair them properly. I think the old Kohler's may tolerate  incompetant, cheap skate owners more so than the other two. Still, the Kohler balance gears do eventually wear out, and if you cut grass on a slope, you may get into trouble. You can also get into trouble rebuilding a Kohler with the current parts situation. 

 

I would not personally turn down a Wheel Horse because it had a Tecumseh. I like Onan. They are screamers. But, I have 2 Kohlers and 1 Onan. Whatever you buy, spend a few bucks and buy a tachometer and do not let it run low on oil. None of my mowers are oil burners. 

[Tankman 3,518]

The old Kohlers can't be beat! Was skeptical 'bout Onan but my '90 520-8 is a Stallion!

 

Edited October 15, 2017 by Tankman

[formariz 11,987]

I have a several Tecumseh engines in service and they run great. They are substantially different from Kohlers specially in the ease of maintenance. I think that is the cause why most people don’t like them, because most of them are not running correctly due to the lack of proper servicing. Carburaters also require slightly different maintenance. Old Kohlers are tanks and they will run well even under the most adverse conditions where a Tecumseh is a bit more sensitive to the same conditions.

[pfrederi 17,739]

I just fixed up a Techy OHV 18 for a friend it was in one of the kit wheel dozers from the 1970s.  Hadn't run in years.  Did have to replace the flywheel as all the magnets inside had broken free.  No worse price or availability wise than ones for Kohlers. Had to replace the ignition module $125 for a used one.  Anyone priced the Kohler breakerless parts lately??

[Fordiesel69 263]

The big teckys were pretty good inside.  I scored a nice 16HP but the carb was missing and so was the gov linkage.  I never did end up using it, but inspecting the insides it was very well built.  The issue is simple, their carbs are junk.  It made an otherwise good engine very frustrating to operate.  Where I am personally confused, is with all the dealers providing feedback (back in the day) why they never listened and redesigned the carb long before loosing market share and subsequently going out of business.  Im sure there is more to all that but the carbs certainly didn;t help matters.  

Also forgot to mention, some of the cast iron big block teckys used tapered timken bearings instead of the ball bearings that kohler used.  The crank end play was much more important to get right on these so the bearings are properly pre loaded.

 

If you can ever score a complete cast iron bigger 12+hp tecky, do so.  They are cool to have around.

[ebinmaine 67,492]

On 10/16/2017 at 9:23 AM, Fordiesel69 said:

If you can ever score a complete cast iron bigger 12+hp tecky, do so

 

Doing some poking around trying to learn a little about the Tecumseh OHV 160 engines and I found this thread. 

 

I now have 2 in the herd. 

Both are in 1974 C160s which had them for a bit to sell in place of the short supplied Kohler engines of that year. 

 

One of mine hadn't been started in a decade or more. Perhaps twice that. 

I put a battery in the tray and squirted a little brake clean in the carb. Fires right up!

 

What I'm looking for is if there's any particular special maintenance things to do being an OHV engine... Or whatever else I can learn.  

 

 

[Wheelhorse#1 1,657]

On 10/15/2017 at 12:14 PM, pfrederi said:

Anyone priced the Kohler breakerless parts lately??

I just rebuilt a breaker less ,changed over to points.

Is a breaker-less coil even available anymore?

[AHS 1,440]

On 10/14/2017 at 6:57 PM, ClassicTractorProfessor said:

I myself have always been a Kohler guy...nothing beats an old K-Series for reliability, ease of repair, or power. Had a couple Tecumseh powered tractors for a while...wasnt impressed and got rid of them. My opinion (along with most people here I'm sure lol) is that the best combination is a Wheel Horse with a Kohler 

^^^The first sentence!! “Nothing beat an old K series for reliability, ease of repair and power”😀💪👍. Even if the K series is flat head and the tecumsehs  are OHV. I’m know I’m going with old school but the K series is just about as tough as nails.. as long as you change the oil regularly. @ebinmaine and I were talking and he said that the K series has more torque than the tecky. 
I took an 8 hp K motor, that was lightly seized and had a stuck valve.. fixed it..  Put on a plow and plowed with it that year! Nothing beat an old K series!!

[ebinmaine 67,492]

3 hours ago, AHS said:

ebinmaine and I were talking and he said that the K series has more torque than the tecky

 

As a disclaimer I should note I can't verify the source's information. 

 

@AHS and I were going back n forth and I found some torque output specs for both  Kohler K341 and Tecumseh OHV 160. 

Both were 16 HP at 3600 RPM. 

Kohler torque was stated as 28 + ft lbs. 

Tecumseh torque was stated as 25 + ft lbs. 

 

It's important to note that the Tecumseh OHV 160 is substantially smaller in cubic volume than the Kohler K341. 

 

T = 27.66 CI

 

K = 35.88 CI

 

 

 

[Handy Don 12,219]

14 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

As a disclaimer I should note I can't verify the source's information. 

 

@AHS and I were going back n forth and I found some torque output specs for both  Kohler K341 and Tecumseh OHV 160. 

Both were 16 HP at 3600 RPM. 

Kohler torque was stated as 28 + ft lbs. 

Tecumseh torque was stated as 25 + ft lbs. 

 

It's important to note that the Tecumseh OHV 160 is substantially smaller in cubic volume than the Kohler K341. 

 

T = 27.66 CI

 

K = 35.88 CI

Very interesting and shows some of why the government cracked down on how manufacturers rated their engine's horsepower!

However, with the 20% smaller displacement plus the OHV configuration, I'd expect fuel economy and emissions to be better with the T. Did the source have anything about the weights of the engines?

[ebinmaine 67,492]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

Did the source have anything about the weights of the engines?

Kohler isn't listed. I've weighed mine and I think it is around 125 or 128 lbs. 

 

Tecumseh OHV 160 is listed at 95 lbs. 

 

 

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

16 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

As a disclaimer I should note I can't verify the source's information. 

 

@AHS and I were going back n forth and I found some torque output specs for both  Kohler K341 and Tecumseh OHV 160. 

Both were 16 HP at 3600 RPM. 

Kohler torque was stated as 28 + ft lbs. 

Tecumseh torque was stated as 25 + ft lbs. 

 

It's important to note that the Tecumseh OHV 160 is substantially smaller in cubic volume than the Kohler K341

Very interesting! Would love to find a power graph. to see which one has the best torque pickup, and which one holds on the longest.

 

Seems like the Tecky has a spike in torque near the end. while the Kohler just keeps his torque consistent all until the end where it drops off due to the inefficienct flathead design.

 

Quite interesting to see a gas engine making 16hp and 25ft lbs with 27.66ci. While my diesel is making 14hp and 28ft lbs with 31ci. both being OHV. Even though a diesel feels stronger..

 

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,492]

3 hours ago, Maxwell-8 said:

Seems like the Tecky has a spike in torque near the end. while the Kohler just keeps his torque consistent all until the end

I'd be curious to know why you see a spike in the Tecumseh torque curve. 

 

Tecumseh spec shows the peak torque at 2800 RPM. 

I think I remember reading the Kohler spec at 2600 RPM (?)

 

Given that idle is 1200 RPM and redline is 3600 they both make best power from just after midrange to the top as most gas engines should. 

 

The Tecumseh engine (being as small as it is) would certainly have less torque. 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Maxwell-8 said:

a diesel feels stronger

The diesel should definitely be stronger.  

The torque output of a diesel is usually much higher than a comparably sized gas engine. 

 

 

[AHS 1,440]

4 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Kohler isn't listed. I've weighed mine and I think it is around 125 or 128 lbs. 

 

Tecumseh OHV 160 is listed at 95 lbs. 

 

 

Oh ya, the K’s are heavy!

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

26 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

The diesel should definitely be stronger.  

The torque output of a diesel is usually much higher than a comparably sized gas engine. 

From the specs I got, not so much relative to the engine capacity, but look at that flat torque curve. peak torque at 1500rpm. and never dropping more then 5ft lbs from that peak.

 

30 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I'd be curious to know why you see a spike in the Tecumseh torque curve. 

   Not really a spike but lower torque in the bottom end, and when  revs increase, the OHV design insures good airflow their for high torque at high rpm.

And since hp = TQ x ?5454? x rpm. That will explain the same hp for the big difference in displacement

At 3600rpm these engine are making 19.2 ft lbs.   9 and 6ft lbs from the peak

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

I guess diesels just keep going due to the compression and insanely heavy flywheel but now I am getting  Srry

[ebinmaine 67,492]

That's a very cool graph. 

It's not representative to what I was reading the other day though. 

I'm fairly sure I saw the peak torque 1000+RPM higher than the 1500.  

 

Definitely curious to see what the actual verified numbers are.  

 

I'd be pretty impressed to see a PEAK torque output only 300 RPM off idle in a single cylinder gas engine. 

 

My seat of the pants Dyno tells me that 1500 is a VERY low number. 

 

[ebinmaine 67,492]

Just now, Maxwell-8 said:

I guess diesels just keep going due to the compression and insanely heavy flywheel but now I am getting  Srry

No worries. 

Flywheel is definitely a help. Gas engines can have those too though. 

 

It's the super high compression of a diesel that's the kicker.   

 

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

That's a very cool graph. 

It's not representative to what I was reading the other day though. 

I'm fairly sure I saw the peak torque 1000+RPM higher than the 1500.  

 

Definitely curious to see what the actual verified numbers are.  

 

I'd be pretty impressed to see a PEAK torque output only 300 RPM off idle in a single cylinder gas engine. 

 

My seat of the pants Dyno tells me that 1500 is a VERY low number. 

 

It is they come right from the manual, so they are correct. 

I am thinking the flywheel must be as heavy as a small kohler.

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

4 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

It's the super high compression of a diesel that's the kicker.   

 

Oh and you feel it too

18,1 to 1 to be exact. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Maxwell-8