5060 Woes

[WHX?? 49,177]

Unloaded my 1067 six speed at a  show a couple of weeks ago, shifted to low to slowly back it in to position in the lineup and everything worked as should. Went to get it ready as my wife was going to drive it in the parade but it would not move. Shifted into all gears ok but something didn't fell right in the high/low range lever.  We had speculated something might have went awry with the shift fork and came to the conclusion it had to come apart.  

Glad I put a front  drain plug in it and magnetics

Split the cases to find this

High/ low range reduction gear shattered.

My only guess is it was only partially engaged or possibly in both high/low range at the same time if that is even possible.

This transmission had just been gone through completely last winter and I had suspected that maybe I didn't have it back together right.

Edited October 9, 2017 by WHX12

[cleat 6,363]

I can't see that happening for no reason.

 

Did something get into the gearcase somehow ?

 

Any other gears damaged ?

 

[WHX?? 49,177]

4 minutes ago, cleat said:

can't see that happening for no reason.

My thoughts as well Cleat.. careful reassembly & inspection of other gears is in order and does not appear anything else is damaged. Luckily the tractor went immovable as soon as it happened. this is what the gear is supposed to look like.  Photo courtesy of @Shynon who also has a replacement on its way.  Tom.

Edited October 9, 2017 by WHX12

[ACman 7,621]

And I thought the rear pinion (well the cast aluminum parts and spring) was the weak spot of this transmission . Jim I'm glad to see there wasn't more damage done . 

[953 nut 55,840]

35 minutes ago, WHX12 said:

in both high/low range at the same time

       I don't think it could get into both at the same time, there seems to be a neutral position between hi and lo. Glad Tom was able to fix you up with a replacement gear.

[WHX?? 49,177]

 

28 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

neutral position between hi and lo

I didn't think so either Richard, I thought it was pretty much sailor proof!

In just now studying my own pictures I noticed the needle bearing on the small end of the broke gear is not present toward the outboard end of the small gear like the good one, or looks that way.  Clearly one can see it in the good gear. Something looks rotten in Denmark here.. more checking tonite. There are two bearings in that gear....  big end & small end.  When I went through the tranny originally I never replaced these bearings as I just cleaned them up and put it back in. Dino says they seldom go bad. I doubt if anyone else but me was in the transmission.

Edited October 9, 2017 by WHX12
gramma

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Good to see that you found a replacement part Jim. 

[Achto 27,815]

1 hour ago, WHX12 said:

I noticed the needle bearing on the small end of the broke gear is not present toward the outboard end of the small gear like the good one

Glad you found the part that you needed. Is there a clip or something that keeps that bearing from sliding in?

[WHX?? 49,177]

No there's not ..... just pressed in Dan, I'm beginning to wonder if that bearing didn't slide over toward the big end leaving the small end unsupported??? That would certainly do it. Will check that tonite and see if Tom's replacement has a gap between bearings for that to happen. I'm willing to bet it does. IPL shows no sleeve to keep it from happening. Who would  figure that the bearing  would walk in there?

Edited October 9, 2017 by WHX12

[Shynon 7,461]

Must be from too much chain pile

[Racinbob 11,234]

We'll never know for certain Jim but I'm thinking it wasn't the bearing or anything you did wrong. It may have had a hairline crack and just decided to commit suicide. Glad to hear that Tom got you fixed up.

[WHX?? 49,177]

I dunno Bob the more I'm lookin the more I think the small end bearing walked in the gear bore. Perhaps the bearing didn't like that fresh new 80/90 and was used to 50 yo sludge with some water mixed in.  Got some decent pics of a semi mangled shift fork and the small end bearing is definitely tucked up next to the big end  where it shouldn't be. Get them pics up tommorow. 

[WHX?? 49,177]

I don't remember the fork being slightly bent and worn during the refresh. I would have think I would have noticed it going through the parts washer.

1st pic ... yes ther are two bearings stacked in there. Have yet  to see what the sliding gear looks like.

[stevasaurus 22,872]

There appears to be a ridge just above the bearing.  If that is the case, I would suspect the bearing was put in from the wrong end or it was jammed down there... or both.  No way it could have just slid down.  See if that is in fact a ridge Jim.    That gear could have just exploded from that inside pressure. 

[Achto 27,815]

3 hours ago, WHX12 said:

I don't remember the fork being slightly bent and worn during the refresh

 

Chances are that the fork got bent when the gear came apart.

[WHX?? 49,177]

On 10/10/2017 at 11:34 AM, stevasaurus said:

ridge just above the bearing

No.... no ridge just looks that way in the pic Steve. I'm thinking now that when it the reduction gear shredded the rest  got slammed over to the left and just shoved the bearing further over to the right. I don't believe it was installed that way. This tranny ran most all its life in sludge and water with out an issue and the  only thing I did when going through is run that piece thru the parts cleaner.

 

Tom's gear came today so hopefully going to work on it tonite and get assembly done anyway.... thanks again Tom.

@stevasaurus in reviewing your vids I notice that you diff.  case nuts are pointing up to the brake shaft side, mine are just the opposite pointing to the input shaft side.

Is this a big deal?

Edited October 13, 2017 by WHX12

[Shynon 7,461]

Hope the gear works out for you. And Thanks for the  You need to pay attention to the diff bolts I believe if the nuts are facing the large end of the mushroom gear they will rub. So I guess that would be nuts facing the input shaft.

[WHX?? 49,177]

That's what I thought too Tom but the manual says nuts down.... no pun intended 

Detents didn't feel right so back apart she came......quit laughing @Racinbob !

Hope they got springs like that at the hdwd store.

Edited October 13, 2017 by WHX12

[Racinbob 11,234]

@stevasaurus chime in here. I'm thinking the 6 speed LS differential gets installed with the nuts down or to the right. The 8 speed non LS has the nuts up or to the left. One time I installed one in an 8 speed with the nuts down and fortunately I pushed the tractor after getting it back together. It barely moved and it was a dead stop as it jammed up. I probably would have done major damage if I would have tried to move it under engine power. I may have one of those springs Jim. That garage isn't just a quick run out and check so I'll take a look later this morning. Don't lose the pin. I know I only have 11/16" left and no 3/4". I checked that out a short time ago for another guy.

 

See note #18 on page 32 in the service manual.

[WHX?? 49,177]

This is what I got out of the manual Bob, page 32... can't seem to find that note 18??

Thanks for the offer on the spring and I may take you up on it if I can't find one local.

Sorry for the fuzzy pic!

I did check the bolt end/nut clearance to the mushroom gear and there is some but not much. Not sure how much end play there is for the diff when its all bolted up?

3 hours ago, Racinbob said:

Don't lose the pin.

NO... got it fixed to a magnet parts tray along with the balls ...looking for those on the floor is an hour of my life lost I'll never get back!

From Dino's tutorial, nuts up and to the left.

Edited October 13, 2017 by WHX12

[Racinbob 11,234]

If you have the same service manual I have it's just before the LS Differential section. It states:

 

"Install the differential and axle assembly with the long end cap and the retaining bolt nuts down into the right hand case. Figure 19."

 

I was going to look at Steve's video again. Since the manual and his video conflict I'm wondering if it even matters on a 6-speed since the diff housing is offset differently. I know it's a problem with an 8-speed and the manual states that the nuts go on top/left but I've never played with a 6. 

 

So far no luck finding that spring. I thought I had all my Wheel Horse parts unpacked but maybe not. The garage down the hill is still a catch-all and pretty much unorganized but it's gonna have to stay that way until next summer. I'll keep looking and let you know. I doubt that you'll find one at a hardware store.

[stevasaurus 22,872]

Interesting about the nuts up or down.  Go with the manual, I probably missed it and just assumed the nuts up all the time.  It may not make any difference...not sure.  Jim, you will have to see when you get that trans from Terry.  If you can't turn it, take it apart and do like the manual.  I doubt Terry ever put any oil in it. 

[WHX?? 49,177]

By golly if I didn't find a suitable spring in  the Hillman drawers at ACE @Racinbob. Thanks for looking. If  When you have that M & G we we can help you inventory and build shelves!

Nice crisp detents in all gears in both pre and final assembly. Every thing looks good to go and hopefully will have it all together for upcoming plow day. Luckily I have a drop in spare 5060 coming my way thanks to @Terry M and @Shynon if for some reason I have more issues. Hopefully no further problems so I can use the spare it for a project I have in mind.