'74 B80 Tie rod questions

[ebinmaine 67,619]

I popped both tie rods off today so I could have my Honey leave them at my small engine repair place.

The one that appears original was falling off on occasion. I'm not real big on losing steering so I'll have him weld up a couple for me.

He installs the new ends on the old bar after cutting to length.

 

Kinda wondering about appropriate stud size and total length. Old one is about 9 3/4 long and the newer one is 1/8 inch shorter.

Does it matter much as long as they're close?

Also, the stud on one is a bit loose in the end of the steering knuckle... Just squeeze it tighter when I re-install or should use a larger rod end and drill out the knuckle?

[rmaynard 15,514]

You'd probably be better off just replacing the whole rod. New ones are fully adjustable. Too long of a tie-rod will cause toe out, and too short will cause toe in. We have a vendor on here that makes them, plus they are always available on eBay or Amazon.

[Ed Kennell 38,227]

You can make your own  with threaded rod and ends from McMaster Carr.

[953 nut 55,320]

We have a vendor here who also makes and sells them.

https://www.wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/

[ebinmaine 67,619]

Definitely going to replace all of both rods.

How about drilling the knuckle for a bigger stud to eliminate looseness? good / bad?

[mikeeyre74 289]

13 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

You can make your own  with threaded rod and ends from McMaster Carr.

 

You got the part numbers handy there that you used for those? They look great!

[Sarge 3,463]

Going up in stud size at the spindle end is going to make the spindle arms quite thin , not too much meat there to start with . If the arms are worn , better off having the holes welded up where they are worn and resize the holes to original . Those stud ends must be kept tight or they can oval out the holes - it's a common to see  them work loose...

 

Sarge

[Ed Kennell 38,227]

 

I couldn't find my invoice Mike. But I believe I used the 3/8" 24 female  rod end with the grease fittings and 3/8"-24 threaded rod and lock nuts.  All RIGHT HAND thread.

Like Sarge said above,  you don't want to open the holes in the arms too much, but you may be OK to go up to 7/16" bolts w/o getting too thin. That would  also give you a little more beef on the rod thickness

  3/8-24     Part No.  4444T21     $4.93

https://www.mcmaster.com/?q=mcmaster-carr&form=EDGSPH&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=a5a3d9e2ddf7461daf5a11f93d52d72f&sp=1&http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mcmaster.com%2F=#rod-ends/=19fr9s7

Edited September 18, 2017 by Ed Kennell

[ebinmaine 67,619]

6 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

Like Sarge said above,  you don't want to open the holes in the arms too much, but you may be OK to go up to 7/16" bolts w/o getting too thin. That would  also give you a little more beef on the rod thickness

One of the holes on the outer end is already about 7/16 

 

I'm in need of extra beefy I think because of the extra weight of the tractor al;one and also ALL I do with it is pull heavy stuff around the acreage.

[ebinmaine 67,619]

23 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

You can make your own  with threaded rod and ends from McMaster Carr.

Ed,

I'm looking at M/carr website and it seems that the ball stud type https://www.mcmaster.com/#4444T941 have FAR less static load strength than comparable  non stud type https://www.mcmaster.com/#4444t22/=19fx17w which it appears you used...

Do you know why?

[ebinmaine 67,619]

On 9/17/2017 at 6:27 PM, 953 nut said:

We have a vendor here who also makes and sells them.

https://www.wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/

Ordered from here tonight... Thanks for the reminder!

[953 nut 55,320]

      @wheelhorseman sells good quality and has reasonable prices too. You will be happy you ordered from him.

[Ed Kennell 38,227]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Ed,

I'm looking at M/carr website and it seems that the ball stud type https://www.mcmaster.com/#4444T941 have FAR less static load strength than comparable  non stud type https://www.mcmaster.com/#4444t22/=19fx17w which it appears you used...

Do you know why?

Eric, I believe the lower radial load rating on the  #4444T941  is due to the larger 44 degree max ball swivel angle.  They probably have to list the radial load with the ball at maximum rotation.       If both balls were at the 21 degree max of the 4444t22,  I believe the radial load rating would be the same.

 

I like the one I used because I can use a grade 8 bolt and really torque the bolt to get max locking between the ball and the spindle arm.  That's part of the problem with the OEM studs.  I find it difficult to get thin open end wrenches on the stud hex to get a good lock with the spindle arm.  That's why we find so many of the studs loose and wallowing out the holes.

The small 21 degree swivel angle has never been a problem.    And being a cheap old GEEZER, I like the lower price.   

[WHX?? 48,828]

I personally  like Lowell's ties but I would venture to say I have the best,or one of, the best steering horses out ther. Did some other mods to get it this way tho but we'll worth it.

No a good pic ...let me know if you  need more

[DennisThornton 4,769]

29 minutes ago, WHX12 said:

I personally  like Lowell's ties but I would venture to say I have the best,or one of, the best steering horses out ther. Did some other mods to get it this way tho but we'll worth it.

No a good pic ...let me know if you  need more

More please!

[WHX?? 48,828]

Thanks Dennis...Not to steal eb's thread but have a whole thread on that build in restos. I must say it is one fine steering tractor... very little to no slop and turns on a dime. I'm sure the tri-ribs help but I tried to keep the tolerances in the rest of the steering gear as tight as possble.

I've  got another link to tie rods that are not but look real orginal if you are interested eb.

Edited September 19, 2017 by WHX12
Dang tablet

[Sarge 3,463]

If you're having issues with the steering effort , you'll need to address the fan gear setup first - the adjustment in the mesh of those teeth is important and wear can be a serious problem . After all , they are cast parts .

 

Another way to reduce the effort is to use roller bearings or oil-impregnated bronze bushings , usually called flange bearings . This is going to require boring out the axle's hole and reaming it to a final dimension . I've bought the sets of bridge reamers to do this for mine and upgraded a few over the years - it stops the wear issues with the cast iron parts and gives you serviceable wear parts that can be replaced easily over time . It's not an easy job - but a bearing or bushing upgrade helps down the road -

 

Might be an option...

 

Sarge

[WHX?? 48,828]

I do like @Ed Kennell's style of tie rods as well. The heim style ends seem to keep things a little tighter as things wear in and seem to take crowding corners a little better.