GT-14 Transaxle Questions and Hello

[Pinball 30]

  I was hoping to get a couple of questions answered about my first Wheel Horse and also say hello.  I bought my first Wheel Horse about two months ago and have been trying to get it back up and moving like it should ever sense.  It is a GT-14 (Model # 1 0502 7 ,serial # 896942) but I am unsure of the year.  The man I bought it from also bought it as a project but he did the tractor no favors by trying to repair the broken pump shaft by welding a rod to the end of it....and not very well.  I was able to buy a parts tractor and put that transaxle in my tractor but I don't think it pulls like it should.  I changed the fluid and filter and the tractor will pull quite a bit but it seems to be lacking some power pulling things up hills.  I have a Ranch King GT that my WH is going to replace when it is done...well my Ranch King smoked a belt so the WH was put to work before I had it done and it was unable to pull the Ranch King up the hill in my back yard.  It is a good sized hill but I would think that the GT-14 should have been able to pull 2 MTD tractors up that hill.  It also had a hard time pulling my roller up the same hill.  I did find that it I have the RPMs up and creep that it works better.  I have the tow valve pointing forward and have tried it in different positions...no luck with it being 180 out.  I can push the tractor without much trouble at all and from what I have read this shouldn't be the case.  Could something like a spring be broken in the pump, or is this a sign of the pump needing some work?  The broken transaxle that I removed was a 90 2062 and the one I replaced it with was a 90 2070...will the parts be interchangeable?  I am hoping to take the broken one apart this weekend to see how everything comes apart (so I don't break the good one) is there something I should be careful of while doing this?  I really like this tractor and would like to get the rest of the parts painted and put on it but I would like to have it working correctly first.  The tractor also came with a snow plow and rototiller ( I think the double pulley for the tiller is the reason the pump shaft is broken).  

  Sorry about the long first post but I figured I would just say Hi and try and get some questions answered at the same time.  If you have any ideas please let me know.  I wouldn't be afraid to take the pump apart if that would help but if you think it could be something else I would gladly try things before doing that.  Here are some pictures of what it looked like when I got it and some as it is now waiting to be finished.

 

Scott

  

  

[Digger 66 3,478]

Good to have 'ya aboard !

[daveoman1966 3,752]

The GT-14 should pull a small locomotive.... What you've described is a worn out hydro pump and it probably can be repaired/ refurbished.  I have rebuilt a few of these successfully.  Not difficult to do, but time hungry and a lot of wrenching.   The power loss is MOST LIKELY due to worn out parts in the pump and you only need to resurface some parts to get all the scratches and gouges out of them.  Here are a few pics of what you'll get into:  

   

 

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by daveoman1966

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,302]

to  I am sure someone will be along and answer your questions.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

Garry

[953 nut 55,250]

            If the hydraulic lift is strong then the pump is probably OK, if not then take the approach Dave offered. Not sure what the 90-2070 pump came from but they are pretty much the same, if it will bolt up it will work. The 90-2046 from a Bronco or Electro can be adapted for a GT-14 with a couple of hours work if need be. Here is a copy of the manual to look over, doing the pressure test would be a good place to start.

Sunstrand Hydro (part 1).pdf

Sunstrand Hydro (part 2).pdf

Sunstrand Hydro (part 3).pdf

Sunstrand Hydro (part 4).pdf

[Pinball 30]

Thanks for all the replies.  I was able to take the pump off of the parts transaxle but I had to cut the weld off of the end of the shaft first to get the housing off.  I have no idea how he thought the seal would survive after he welded right up against it.  I was reading the Sunstrand Hydro manuals (thanks 953 nut)

and I think I will try the pressure test before tearing into my pump.  I am just hoping the gauge form my little digger will work.  The tractor does have a 3 point hitch that has no problem lifting me (230 lbs) up at idle and I have not noticed the tractor losing power after using it for awhile. The manual also stated " Close towing valve and try to push the tractor. If the tractor can be pushed, a malfunctioning valve is usually indicated." so I think I will look into this as well...the only trouble is I don't know which valves to start with  Here are a couple more pictures of the transaxle parts and one of the tractor with my little digger.

[daveoman1966 3,752]

You need to remove all the scratches in the 9 Brass piston slippers, and the base of the cylinder block. Those  individual scratches aren't bad, but the cujlative effect is why you have power loss.  Hot oil bypasses thry the scratches and hyd pressure is lost.  

You main shaft is TOAST.  I have the exact replacement shaft you  need and it is on Ebay as item #  131785069522 

 

This is the shaft with bearing.  Have a look-C.  It fits the Sundstrand hyd model 90-2046 and 90-2062 which is what the GT-14 has.

[953 nut 55,250]

6 hours ago, Pinball said:

malfunctioning valve is usually indicated." so I think I will look into this as well...the only trouble is I don't know which valves to start with

The "Acceleration Valve Springs" are the first place I would look. The manual gives you a good step by step guide, the hardest part is removing the wheel and fender to get at them. If they are broken I think @refracman can hook you up with a source.

[Pinball 30]

Thanks again.  Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one... I replaced the drive belt because it just seemed too big.  I used the one from the parts tractor and it was on there a lot tighter.  The tractor was even able to pull my Ranch King up the hill so things are looking up.  I still don't like that I can push the tractor with the tow valve in the correct location so I will work on running that pressure test and checking the other valves for a broken part. Dave thanks for the concern but those parts were from my parts transaxle that came broken with my tractor.  I was just practicing so when it comes time to take the good one apart I will have a better idea of how things go together         I forgot to mention that it pulled the Ranch King up the hill AFTER pulling a bunch of brush so my transaxle was hot.

[953 nut 55,250]

3 minutes ago, Pinball said:

things are looking up.

                   

[Pinball 30]

Sorry I have not had the time to check the pressure on the pump but I am hoping to be able to get to that this week.  The good news is I grabbed these wheel weights off of Craigslist after a day of tree cutting at my Son's new house. The guy didn't know what they came off of and I just rolled the dice for $25.  Man these things fit like a glove and weigh 65 pounds each!  They will look great when I get them painted up.  Just accessorizing

[Pinball 30]

I just want to make sure I hook the gauge to the correct port as I will have to buy an adapter to get my gauge to fit.  Is this the port to run my pressure test?

Thanks,

[19richie66 17,508]

along for the ride!

[pfrederi 17,740]

I would wait for a GT-14 guy, but I do not think that is the right port.  Manual says it is a 1/4"  plug the picture you are showing is 1/2" plug.  On my D and ELectro I use one of the ORB5 ports for pressure testing..

[19richie66 17,508]

I had posted a photo of a transmission pump but it was wrong. I deleted it and replaced it with a picture of my dog. Have a nice day!

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by 19richie66

[daveoman1966 3,752]

the image here by 19richie66 is NOT of the GT-14 hydrogear.  It is of a 90-1136 (or 37 or 40) and the GT-14 hydrogear is a model 90-2062.  Accordingly, it doesn't have the same port configuration.   I think it is shown in this pic....can't hurt to try anyway.  

[19richie66 17,508]

Sorry Dave, thought it was. Ill delete the picture. Dont want to give out any wrong info. Thanks for pointing that out. 

[Pinball 30]

Thanks for all of the help and it looks like that plug I am pointing at will be the correct one then....The REAL good news is I just found something broken!!!!!!!!!!  I removed the acceleration valves to check everything out before I ran my pressure test.  Well the first one looked fine...this is the one that faces forward.  When I removed the second one ( the one facing the rear) I knew something was not right just by the way it came out.  The smaller spring was broken in a couple of places and was all bound up in the larger spring and the spring seat was bent up as well.  The cone is stuck in the relief valve seat because the spring seat or spring were beating the heck out of it.  Funny but this is great news.  It is always nice to find a broken part when you are working on something that you know is just not right.  I am going to head out to try and remove the valve sleeve and relief valve seat from my parts transaxle...this thing might be up and running tomorrow if everything goes well.  Any advice on removing the valve sleeve and relief valve seat?  I am going to try and make the puller they show in the manual.  Thanks again.

[Pinball 30]

Well it is all back together and it does seem to run better but I am still able to push the tractor, it is just not as easy as it was.  I hooked my hitch to a tree to see how it pulled and now have another question.  When pulling on something that is not going to move should both wheels spin? Only one of my wheels would spin while hooked to the tree and when I was trying to climb the hill. Thanks

[daveoman1966 3,752]

The GT-14s have a 10-pinion Limited Slip Differential, but it may be worn out.  When the tension spring (22 in schematic) gets weak, one wheel will spin-out.

This is a 1972 schematic.....should be same for other years of the GT-14 but cannot guarantee that.  

gt-14 tr list.xlsx

[Pinball 30]

Thanks Dave but for some reason my computer will not let me open it after I downloaded the file.  I just got done pressure washing the parts transaxle and will remove the charge pump as soon as I get a 5/16 12 point socket.  They were using the rototiller when they broke the shaft so I am hoping the Limited Slip Differential parts are in better shape in this transaxle.  I will resurface the skippers and cylinder block base and hope for the best.  Where do you get the material to make the gasket for the pump housing and how thick should it be?  One thing at a time I guess   thanks again for all the help

[daveoman1966 3,752]

That is an Excel SS file...  What is your email address so I can send it to you outside of this forum.?

 

[Pinball 30]

eagle4@zoominternet.net

Thank you

[daveoman1966 3,752]

The gasket is about the thickness of a cereal box... here are a few other pics that may help along the way.  In resurfacing the parts, start with 220 or 400 grit paper, then ...when scoring is almost gone...finish surface with 600 or 800.  Use a surface plate or something else very flat....like 3/4" glass and, with wax-on...wax off motion, gradually resurface all the parts.  The MAY be some deep gouges or pits tthat don'e come out... Sand off just enough material to remove the scoring / scratches.  When you put it back together, use RED ENGINE ASSEMBLY oil on all mating surfaces.  

Check for oil leaks around the Hyd Pump too... sides and input shaft end.  

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by daveoman1966