C-125 Won't Fire

[Fin_ 3]

Alright will try again even though I did it very slowly for a long time and will recheck the point gaps.

[pfrederi 17,739]

It might be easier in the long run to remove the air shroud find the marks paint them and then put the shroud back on.

[Fin_ 3]

Yeah will do that today.

[Fin_ 3]

Took of the air shroud and tried looking for the markings. Would this be a T marking, it was the strongest marking I could see.

[Tim.0 39]

really hard to tell from the picture..... the T and the S are not far from each other on the fly wheel

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,041]

If I remember correctly the timing marks are on this part of the flywheel. I don't see a T.

 

Garry

 

[Tim.0 39]

 

[Searcher60 209]

Judging solely from the amount of rust in that pic on the flywheel, your timing marks are long gone. The timing was never the problem as it ran before you parked it. First I would have checked for spark. If I didn't have it, checked for 12 volts on the coil with the key on. If present, I would have filed and set points , and recheck for spark at the plug. More than likely there was a coating on the points, or a fuel problem. The timing doesn't get off sitting. 

[6bg6ga 272]

Searcher60 has hit the nail on the head. The timing marks are gone not that you actually need them unless your using a dwell meter and timing light. Its a pretty simple procedure to set a simple set of points. Its not a set of dual points on your 406 Tri-power Ford after all. At .015-.020 it will start and run provided the points and condenser are good as well as the coil and your getting voltage to the coil under crank and run.

 

This is not rocket science. Anybody, heck my 9 year old grand daughter could set the points and get it running. Too much effort set forth trying to uncover the missing timing marks. Lets move on and devote the time to figuring out why it isn't running instead of crying over missing timing marks.

[rmaynard 15,458]

When an engine runs, then is shut off and sits for a year, and when you try to start it again it won't fire up, it's not a timing problem. It's either oxidized points or a fuel problem. Timing won't change, spark plugs don't go bad just sitting, nor do ignition wires. Condensers can break down, but it's not common. Oxidized points will cause you to not have a spark. If you have a spark but a wet plug, you are flooded. Check the float valve when you take the carburetor off to thoroughly clean it.

[6bg6ga 272]

Another LOGICAL post.. 

[pfrederi 17,739]

Going back to original post He said he had fuel compression and spark

 

Wheel horse c-125 with kohler 301 engine wont fire but turns over. I have made sure there is fuel getting to the engine and there is a strong enough spark to start it. Also we have good enough compression.

So what is the problem?

 

[rmaynard 15,458]

Since there was a lot of talk about the timing marks, here is how to find the approximate location if your flywheel is rusted.

 

This is where the marks are located, and what they are supposed to look like. This is a K301 flywheel.

 

So, with the cover off, looking from the front, remove the nut and locate the keyway. Place it at the top (12 o'clock). Your TDC (T) mark will be at 9 o'clock with the (S) mark 5-1/2 to 6 teeth toward the top.

 

[pfrederi 17,739]

2 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

Since there was a lot of talk about the timing marks, here is how to find the approximate location if your flywheel is rusted.

 

This is where the marks are located, and what they are supposed to look like. This is a K301 flywheel.

 

So, with the cover off, looking from the front, remove the nut and locate the keyway. Place it at the top (12 o'clock). Your TDC (T) mark will be at 9 o'clock with the (S) mark 5-1/2 to 6 teeth toward the top.

 

 

 

Interesting info Bob.  I was working on a 10 Hp K241 on a 1075 (has a S/G),  the timing hole is on the rear side of the shroud.  On My 310-8 it is on the front. Apparently when they started putting ring gears on for electric starters they moved the timing marks and the sight hole.  Having them up front near the points makes life a lot easier...

[rmaynard 15,458]

This flywheel is typical of a K-series with Bendix-type starter. Since @Fin_ is working on a K301AS, this should help him locate the marks if they are still there.

[Fin_ 3]

Thanks for the help will look later today! Seems like were a bit mislead at the start.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Fin_

[Tim.0 39]

If it was my engine just beside getting it going I would want to find the timing marks anyway. Never know might need them one day. Then I guess that's just me.

[Fin_ 3]

Just filed down the points and we are getting a much stronger spark than before but still doesn't start so I'm going to look at the fuel again.

[pfrederi 17,739]

17 minutes ago, Fin_ said:

Just filed down the points and we are getting a much stronger spark than before but still doesn't start so I'm going to look at the fuel again.

How are you testing the spark? Laying the plug on the block is not always a good test.   i assumed you had cleaned the points when you adjusted them.

Spray carb cleaner in as you crank does it fire???

Edited July 8, 2017 by pfrederi

[Searcher60 209]

Is the gas good? Compression good? If you squirt  a few drops into the carb, then put the choke on, does it start for a few seconds? 

[6bg6ga 272]

9 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

How are you testing the spark? Laying the plug on the block is not always a good test.   i assumed you had cleaned the points when you adjusted them.

Spray carb cleaner in as you crank does it fire???

 

Correct.  One needs to dress the points first followed by dragging a clean piece of newspaper thru the points to pull out any debris. Once the points are dressed ( free of pitting and level) and clean then and only then does one set the point gap. As pfrederi has suggested you can spray a little carb cleaner in or a little starting fluid/ether. In your situation I would suggest purchasing a spark tester. Remember knowledge comes from experience and maybe you might need to start at the beginning if you don't get results. 

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 7:38 AM, pfrederi said:

 

 

Interesting info Bob.  I was working on a 10 Hp K241 on a 1075 (has a S/G),  the timing hole is on the rear side of the shroud.  On My 310-8 it is on the front. Apparently when they started putting ring gears on for electric starters they moved the timing marks and the sight hole.  Having them up front near the points makes life a lot easier...

Good job on the flywheel pictures. Takes all the guess work out of re-marking the flywheel if someone desires to do so.

[6bg6ga 272]

Fin

 

With a clean feeler gauge re-set the points. Spray a little starting fluid down the carb, close the choke and hit the starter and see if it starts.

[Fin_ 3]

We have cleaned and re-set the points with a feeler gauge and I will try spraying starter fluid down the carb once again, thanks.   

[Fin_ 3]

Yes it finally started.... Then it cut off again probably because I for some reason turned the choke off after I got it going. There was some fluid slowly seeping out of the spark plug hole so I tightened it and put some lock-tight on the thread, will update on how it goes tomorrow. Might be a fuel issue.

[pfrederi 17,739]

You should not need locktite on the spark plug ...Are the threads in the head OK???   Dod you plug have a metal gasket on it??? Did you torque it to spec??? 18-22 ft lbs