Tractor Wiring Options

[WHX?? 48,803]

So I am at the final stages of my 1067 work and just have a few questions on wiring.

First off this  girl was converted to a solenoid type starter circuit as the original switch must have given up the ghost long ago so I do not have the 6 ga wire running up to the 3 term key switch. The switch that replaced it has an ACC terminal.- see 3rd pic. 

 

First question is can/should I run the lights & cigar lighter off the ACC post on the switch or run them off the L terminal on the voltage regulator as in the wiring diagram? I would venture to guess running them off the reg. would not allow the lights to work if the engine is not running? Its it ok to leave nothing attached to the L terminal on the reg. ? Note in the second diagram it shows the L terminal running to the bat post on the switch where in the first diagram it just runs to the lights/lighter. Seems to be a contradiction in diagrams.  I would like to have the lights usable even it the tractor is not running.

 

2nd is how does the GEN light work? It seems the case of the bulb is not grounded as in most indicator light applications. The original diagram shows it the center of the bulb to the start terminal or the armature winding and the bulb case wired to the  I  terminal of the switch. I'm sure that was the way it was wired before disassembly and that is how I planned to wire it again unless there is a better way. Keep in mind I am not running the 3 term switch. I will also not be running an amp meter as shown.

 

3rd is should I be worried about wiring in fuse protection?

 

 

[Achto 27,517]

42 minutes ago, WHX11 said:

So I am at the final stages of my 1067 work and just have a few questions on wiring

 

If you want to ensure that you have lights & lighter all of the time, I would run a fused wire from the battery side of the solenoid to those two items. I say a fused wire just because I prefer to have the protection. An in line fuse is what I use on mine.

With the warning light, when power is not being produced by the Gen then it will back feed & act as a ground causing the light to come on. When the Gen produces power the back feed goes away and the light will go out.

I usually fuse any accessories, (lights, lighter, etc). I do not fuse the ignition wire to the coil. 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Achto

[Tgtack 779]

In one picture, you have a solenoid, and in the other you do not. If you are not running a solenoid, then your "replacement" switch better have a high amperage rating because it is feeding power directly to the generator/starter. Otherwise, you risk burning the contacts in the switch. Also, this is going to dictate the size of the wiring to the switch. With solenoid, states #14 gauge. Without a solenoid, your looking at running #6 gauge to the switch.

 

In regards to your accessories, read the following and then make your determination. The older systems work a little different than their modern counterparts. I assume you are going to use an ammeter, if not, ignore the ammeter hook up but go straight to the same points.

 

"one post of the ammeter hooks to the battery non grounded side either at the battery or at the starter,,, all other wires hook to the other post of the ammeter [in your case because you have an [L] terminal only one wire]. That wire runs from the non-battery side of the ammeter to the [BAT] terminal on the regulator. All loads [ign, lights etc.] are hooked to the [L] {load} terminal of the regulator. If it reads backwards [ammeter] when running just reverse the leads on the ammeter.
~The [ARM 'or gen'] terminal of the regulator hooks to the [A] post on the generator,, The [F 'or fld'] terminal on the regulator hooks to the [F] post on the generator. ~When assembled & wired & with the battery hooked up momentarily jump the [BAT] to the GEN/arm] terminal at the regulator to polarize the generator.
~If you don't want to mess with the [L] terminal you can just leave it open & wire all the ign & light loads to the non battery side of the ammeter. [again! ALL loads "except the cigarette lighter " are hooked to the NON-BATTERY side of the ammeter or the [L] terminal at the regulator. All that [L] terminal does is keep the battery from getting overcharged due to headlight or other loads on the system when it is used for hours on end in field operations. .. "

 

The generator light works on a feedback loop, if the engine rpm is too slow, the light will start to glow indicating a discharging battery. Step up the rpm a little and light goes out indicating a charging condition.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Tgtack

[WHX?? 48,803]

4 minutes ago, Tgtack said:

In one picture, you have a solenoid, and in the other you do not. If you are not running a solenoid, then your "replacement" switch better have a high amperage rating because it is feeding power directly to the generator/starter.

As stated I am running a solenoid as I refuse to pay what they want for a replacement high amp switch! The 1st diagram is how it should have been from the factory. The second one is from the Kohler repair manual. I will not be running an ammeter.

 

10 minutes ago, Tgtack said:

All that [L] terminal does is keep the battery from getting overcharged due to headlight or other loads on the system when it is used for hours on end in field operations. .. "

That's interesting as I had wondered what the L terminal was even for. I was contemplating running the L term to the Bat on the switch then fuse the lighting off the ACC term. I can see I need to study the operation of the Volt Reg some more. On my 1257 the gen light comes on and flickers when turning off the engine this one never did that. Maybe I had better check the bulb to make sure it is good.

Found these as well as complete adjustment procedures. Those old manuals are a wealth of info.

[Tgtack 779]

Those are nice, remember back when things had to be built to allow people to be more self sufficient. These will come on handy.

[Achto 27,517]

I checked my 1076 when I got home. It is wired to print for that year. The lights & lighter are connected to the L terminal on the regulator and have power with the engine off. Shoulda remembered that seems I charge my phone off of the tractor quite often. I would run your accessories off of the L terminal with the addition of a 20a inline fuse.

[953 nut 55,124]

I took the liberty of eliminating the amp meter and added the Generator light for you.

[WHX?? 48,803]

Yer my hero Richard..howdyoudothat???  In talking with Achto his tractor works with the key off and will still charge his cell thru the L term with the key switch off.... yah we gab alot but only about tractors! So the question still stands should I wire the L term up to the ig switch Batt term and let power flow when the ign switch is ON or in the ACC position? This switch does have the turn far CCW position that I assumes runs the Bat to  ACC term. Kinda like a car. I probably should read thru this switch and see exactly what it does.

By the way a quick ohm check of the bulb shows indeed is is toast, I get Taiwain 1445 off the bulb so is there a special bulb?

Thanks for your help.

[953 nut 55,124]

     I would put some shrink wrap insulation on the "L" terminal and just run a fused line from the "A" terminal on the switch for lights if you want them to be operable with the engine off.

[Achto 27,517]

http://www.navioneer.org/riprelay/The Navion Files/Delco_Remy_Generator_Regulators.pdf

According to this book by Delco Remy, page 16. The L term works as such.... When load is increased on the L terminal the output of the generator is increased & this power is sent to the accessories pulling the load but not the battery. Hence providing extra power for the accessories with out over charging the battery.

The 1445 bulb is a 2.7watt 14v bulb, it should be available at most automotive stores.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Achto

[6bg6ga 272]

The Delco book is a winner. Everyone should download a copy and burn to a CD just to keep this alive. Back to basics in 1940-50's style.

[WHX?? 48,803]

Yes Dan that is a good piece even tho it looks to be older than 953 nut! He probably remembers back in the day when there was one under every car hood. It's refreshing to see that guys here are keeping the old school technology alive.  Really explains the operation of those regs in detail for us morethanwereallywantedtoknow guys. Maybe @gwest_ca could put that in the files if not already there.

11 hours ago, Achto said:

The 1445 bulb is a 2.7watt 14v bulb, it should be available at most automotive stores.

Will pick some up, bet the one on the 857 is bad too. I suspected it never worked hence the hole in the dash for an ammeter that I scrounged out of an old abandoned corn picker! . Can just see it under the wheel. Guess I have to leave it out since Dick took it out of the diagram!  Thanks I really didn't want to have to cut a hole in that nice polished dash.

Thanks for the help guys I have a pretty good idea on how to proceed now!

[953 nut 55,124]

3 hours ago, WHX11 said:

older than 953 nut!

Only thing older than me is DIRT!  

S/G units didn't begin with , a friend has a 1924 Dodge Brothers roadster pickup that has a S?G unit.

PS:  nice 953/1054 steering wheel, never seen one painted white.

[WHX?? 48,803]

2 hours ago, 953 nut said:

PS:  nice 953/1054 steering wheel, never seen one painted white.

Not sure about that wheel @953 nut, it definitely was not painted but sure looks like an original. Was white through and through.  I'm thinkin it maybe came off a Cub & made by the same supplier to WH?  Weren't Cub wheels white?

 It was stuck on so bad I had to cut the spokes off, melt, the plastic off and then go at it with big pullers & lots of heat wrench. Didn't care if I trashed it I was goig to get the correct color anyway and can't tell from the pic but was way out of round.  I did get a real nice original replacement from A-Z

Maybe I shouldn't have trashed it as maybe it was a fluke factory original?!?!?

[953 nut 55,124]

1 hour ago, WHX11 said:

cut the spokes off, melt, the plastic off and then go at it with big pullers & lots of heat wrench. Didn't care if I trashed it

Wellllll!       I guess I won't have to beg you to sell me that extremely hard to find steering wheel.     

 

Don't remember what boat manufacturer used that same wheel but I do remember seeing one like it on a '60s vintage boat, it was white too.

[WHX?? 48,803]

Well ok so much for my wiring skills . Good thing I didn't do this with Dan's custom set of batt cables.

Finished up the wiring and anxious  to check things out so I jury rigged up a set of old batt cables with a piece of scrap 16 ga wire from  batt + to batt term on the reg., just had it wedged between the post and clamp.  Every thing checked out good. I did end up running from the L term to switch batt term and acc term had power with switch in acc and on positions. Motor turns over nice, gen light comes on as should. Didn't check for spark tho.

 

For some stupid reason I was doing this with the cover off the reg. and accidentally operated the cutout relay with my forearm while reaching over the top of the tractor. Evidently this relay does not like to operated in such a manner as it froze shut and sent power from the reg batt term directly to ground.   Talk about letting the smoke out! Luckily I had the presence of mind to quick pull the  + batt cable  off (I hadn't tightened the clamp) and avoid any damage to anything but a scrap wire and my pride!

Wired a blade type fuse holder from switch acc term to lighter and lights but having a problem with the fuse blowing when the lighter is pushed in. Bad lighter or socket or perhaps too small a (15 Amp is all I had) fuse. Will have to work on that some more.  

Edited May 11, 2017 by WHX11

[953 nut 55,124]

      Every piece of wire contains some magic smoke, the trick is keeping it in the wire!   

The lighter should be OK at 15 amps. guess  used some heavy duty elements! If a 20 amp fuse won't hold you definitely have a problem.

[WHX?? 48,803]

Thank you Dick!