18 Auto Fliud Issue

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

Hello,

    I was running fine (1973 18 Auto) then she stopped all hydro functions? I checked the coupler & spline. I checked the fluid level. I added Type A (Dextron II). Still no movement but I can at least hear the pump. I think I made a mistake adding the Dextron. I hope draining the fluid, changing the filter, then refilling with 10-30 will fix this issue? Anyone ever experience this? I don't want to waste the oil, but 25.00 gamble is not that big a deal! Also, I can push the tractor with the release valve open or closed. Any input welcome.

[pfrederi 17,895]

Either Dexron ATF or 10w-30 motor oil will work...just not mixed together....What was in there before??  How much did you have to add to top it off?  When was the last time the filter was changed?  Being able to push it with the tow valve closed does not bode well.  It may be worth a few bucks to drain out what is in there refill with whatever was in there (I assume most the fluid is original..back to how much did you add?) and put on a new filter.

[pacer 3,174]

Honestly, I'd say dont waste your time - or money - from your descriptions it points to internal probs, which, as several have pointed out, as unfortunately a big project

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

Hello,

     I really appreciate the replies. I believe the pump needs removed. I see the manual reveals the re-assembly, but not the dis-assembly? So, working backwards I can get the pump out. Is there anything I need to watch out for in this process? Will I need to unbolt the engine for clearance issues? I will drain whatever is in there? I have a shop locally G-D Equipment, Shippensburg, PA (Amish) They do phenomenal work at 35.00 an hr! (Strictly Hydro-Tractor Repair) Camera time! I told my self that I wouldn't repair this machine again! I was very "sad" all yesterday and this morning! Ha ha ha! However, I don't leave the wounded behind!

[pfrederi 17,895]

Step by step is explained in the manual  Separated system page 27.

 

If you have an FEL it and ts subframe have to go as does rear PTO

Engine has to be moved forward

 

You will really want an extended allen bit (5/16" about 6" long) for your socket ratchet to get 2 of  the manifold mounting bolts

 

 

If this failure was sudden and you can push it valve opened or closed the diagnostic chart would also have you look at the transaxle counter shaft keys  that would be marginally easier than pulling the pump

Edited April 12, 2017 by pfrederi

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

Thank you. Where would the transaxle counter shaft keys be located in the transaxle? I have basic service manual for A B C D nothing as detailed as this one. I have quite a bit of work in front of me then. Might be a good time to go ahead and restore the whole tractor. I have a replacement block too as the one exhaust stud broke some time ago. I figure a new set of rings and such would be crucial during the swap. all the usual parts during the rebuild as well.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Oldman

[pfrederi 17,895]

The service manual includes a parts explosion for hydro gears page 54...your transaxle is the same look at item 30     2 of them

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

Sorry,

     I do not have that manual. Is there a copy available?

[pfrederi 17,895]

1 minute ago, Oldman said:

Sorry,

     I do not have that manual. Is there a copy available?

I posted the link in your other post about this tractor.  it is in the manual section here.

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

Say,

   I checked out the counter shaft diagram and I see what would keep the rear from turning, wouldn't the lift still work though? Or does that effect the whole pump system?

[pfrederi 17,895]

That would only affect the movement.  No lift  action you have hydro system issues.  What is odd is you said it was sudden.  leaky valve plates cause problems over time. not immediate. acceleration valve springs would only affect movement.  do you have a pressure gauge??  Do the charge pump pressure test in the manual.

Frankly being able to push it tow valve closed or open an lack of hydro lift are almost 2 different issues.  The sudden onset is more confusing. Maybe a pressure relief valve issue charge pump or implement lift...

 

Charge pump pressure should be over 75 implement 700 or so at full extension.

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

Hello,

     thanks again. I will try the tests first, just need a proper gauge. Tearing this down is a good sized job. Nobody will buy it anyhow, not around here! I could part it out and try to sell off the attachments? Again , around here it's pointless. We are 15 ml from the show too! Ha ha ha!

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

Hello,

    Just so you know, the pump shaft was broken right in front of the spline! It was very difficult to see.......The shop can install a new one, thank God! Should have them go over all the hydrostatics, splurge!

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

Little update, the shop spoke with fork tongue! Just wanted to leave my baby out in the rain for a month and then charge me diagnosis fee? Anyone know the sunstrand part number for toro part 200213? I know it is a 90-1137 IH Pump. Seal 7877. I would love to buy another pump too! Right  along with 200 other people! Ha ha ha!

[pfrederi 17,895]

I was wondering if a place could come up with a replacement shaft that easily.  pulling the pump replacing the shaft  reinstalling the pump would be a lot of hours.

 

When WH dropped the Sundtrand stuff they sold inventory out to

LJ Fluid Power

Address: 10118 S M 43 Hwy, Delton, MI 49046

Phone: (269) 623-4150

 

they may?? have new replacement shafts

 

also check withe AtoZ Tractor a vendor here he may gave a shaft or complete pump

http://a-ztractor.com/

 

The seal is readily available form any number of sources  CR 7474 or double lip 7475

 

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

Wow! This is really cool! I will check them first thing in am! Thank you greatly! I have nothing if it isn't time........

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

LJ Fluid Power does have the parts, newly manufactured. Very,very expensive! Good resource though.I double checked the pump shaft and it is intact. (Another forked tongue issue?) I started to tear down the battery support and seen a lot of fluid down on the hoses below the push valve(tow valve). Then all around the push valve as well. I am also going to try and inspect the metering hole for a clog. Drained.The oil was clear. The filter looked good as well. I would get a grin if the O-Ring was bad on the push valve!

Edited April 14, 2017 by Oldman

[pfrederi 17,895]

Your tow valve looks like this

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

I didn't take it all the way out yet.I'll know if the O-ring is shot, that's for sure! I really don't know what else to check, kinda leery of putting new oil & filter. Trying to take care of the wife and work on the tractor.......I went to see a Power King 1620 with Three Point. No PTO. Wide tractor, fast! 4-speed. Tried to find a manual for the PTO see if wheel horse tiller will fit? It is another 2000 rpm. PTO Here is the push valve, )-Ring is shrunken-up pretty good.......

Edited April 14, 2017 by Oldman
add photo.

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

"LOOK"-Had to grab it quick! Just listed from trusted seller.Even if the O-Ring 971012 fixes the other one(maybe), I have this for back-up.

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

Hello,

          Can you tell me the O-Ring size for the 971012? I want to try replacing this O-ring and see if that will work? Or do you think that isn't the likely cause? Also, if I have two issues, which shall I diagnose first? Do you do repairs? Lol!

Thanks

[pfrederi 17,895]

Thought about this a bit.  The O ring only stops leakage when you are in tow mode, the valve being open.  Sort of like a faucet, the stem packing is only used when the faucet is running.

 

You say you can push the tractor with the tow valve closed.  The O ring has nothing to do with things then. When tightened up the pointed tip is sealing the valve.  Your tip looks to be in good shape so I would suspect there are other issues. 

 

I will measure the o ring later today when I get out to the shop.  By all means try that but I doubt it is your issue. 

 

You should run  a pressure test on the charge pump as shown in the sundstrand manual.

 

There are several threads here in the tutorial section about working on the hydro pump and motor The manual gives you good instructions..  i would take apart the one you bought and check it out.  No point in installing another problem.  Also gives you  a feel if you want to tackle repairs yourself.

Edited April 15, 2017 by pfrederi

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

Yes, I believe inspecting and or rebuilding this new one would be prudent. I should leave the system dry for a bit. I did mention that it was low a quart when drained, however, perhaps a quart stays in the system> I did remove and drain the filter as well when measuring the drained fluid. I don't have a gauge, what type is needed, thread, etc?

 

 

Thanks again

[pfrederi 17,895]

Being a quart low wouldn't explain the total lack of hydraulic lift and/or movement. 

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,195]

So, is there any way something within the rest of the system could restrict flow so the pump wouldn't function at all? Check valve or hydro motor? Metering hole? I guess, the best thing to do then, would be to tear down the whole machine. Send the engine off for rebuild, ( I have a replacement block with good exhaust flange) Go over the whole hydrostatic system. Paint her up with decals and then seal it all up in a big bubble! Ha ha ha! I am excited about finding the issue and I absolutely love a challenge!

 

Thanks again