GT-14 wiring mess

[cafoose 3,354]

I started looking at the wiring on my newly acquired 1970 GT-14. It looks like a mess!  I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and put traditional points, condenser, and coil in it No wonder it hasn't run in five years What parts would I need and how would I go about converting it if I go with points? Should I just get the wiring corrected and try it like it is first?

[Aldon 4,826]

In my opinion, yes, change out to automotive style  points and condensor and change out the ignition switch to more modern type you can pick up at NAPA for ~ 15.00 and wire it like a more modern C series.

 

Use new wire or you will have troubles later due to cracking insulation.

 

Those along with a new fuel lines, filter and aftermarket carb are my SOP with these beasts.

 

Well worth the reduction in headaches and once done, very reliable.

 

Just noticed you will need a new regulator as well.

However, if you don't have any of the parts and need to start from scratch it will run you 150-200 to change it all out. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by Aldon

[ztnoo 2,298]

I've never seen a GT 14 wiring abortion quite like that before.

WOW!

 

[953 nut 55,155]

If you remove the wire from the bottom of the ignition module and jump the starter to crank the engine you should have spark if it is good. If it is not then the points option is a good one. @Aldon has a thread covering this. Here is a basic Battery ignition drawing.

[formariz 11,987]

I would try to see if there is spark.It takes a few minutes. If so , that system is pretty reliable. The biggest danger to that system is shorting the two wires that come from stator to rectifier. You then fry the stator which is nearly impossible to find and very very pricey when you do. From the looks of that whole thing it will be nothing short of a miracle that it has not happened, but you never know.

[cafoose 3,354]

 

 

2 hours ago, 953 nut said:

If you remove the wire from the bottom of the ignition module and jump the starter to crank the engine you should have spark if it is good

Are you referring to the red wire with the yellow crimp on it?

Edited April 5, 2017 by cafoose

[cafoose 3,354]

1 hour ago, formariz said:

The biggest danger to that system is shorting the two wires that come from stator to rectifier.

Are you referring to these two wires going behind the flywheel? how do I know which wire is which without removing the flywheel?

 

[formariz 11,987]

On the breaker less ignition, there should be Three wires coming from stator. Two of those wires go to the rectifier( usually light green?) the other to the trigger( Black). You will not see that one. I am not sure but I think that your rectifier is on your first photo. Its missing cover.Not good! Two of those wires should come from under flywheel (blue ones?????) don't short them there, that is usually where it happens. For now I would just remove them from there and insulate ends. You don't need those to start tractor. They are only to charge battery and put out AC .You have a 10 AMP system.

 

You should get a hold of the wiring schematic for that tractor so you know what is what and where it goes. 1969 but I think correct wiring diagram

Then I would get rid of all existing wiring, except for that red wire going to bottom of coil. That one is coming from trigger and its needed there. If there is another one spliced to it leave it for now.It may be coming from switch and it would be the one that grounds magneto to shut it off.Now  "jump" the starter to crank engine to see if you have spark. That system is self energizing, no battery power needed to run. If you get spark then all parts of system , stator,coil,trigger should be OK. I would then just rewire the whole tractor so there are no more surprises or doubts.

Edited April 5, 2017 by formariz

[formariz 11,987]

Taking a better look at your first photo, I see wires in a "jacket"?? Those may be the ones coming from flywheel. Its usually how they are. Just get rid of that rectifier and insulate all of those three wires for now if you are not sure. One of them should go to the switch. It does not look like they are placed correctly on that rectifier. Usually the wires from stator go on terminals adjacent to each other.

[cafoose 3,354]

4 hours ago, 953 nut said:

If it is not then the points option is a good one. @Aldon has a thread covering this.

Is this the thread you're referring to?

 

 

[19richie66 17,500]

Some people should not be allowed to own wire cutters or crimpers. Someone really butchered that one. Mine is not as bad but still looks like spaghetti. Good luck with your project.

[953 nut 55,155]

4 hours ago, cafoose said:

Is this the thread you're referring to?

 

 

Yes, # 15 covers the work he did to make it work.

[Aldon 4,826]

4 hours ago, cafoose said:

Is this the thread you're referring to?

 

 

That is indeed the thread 953nut is referencing.

 

The relative scarcity of the breakerless parts will leave you most likely spending same or more than you would for conversion.

 

Although there are proponents on the forum for using the original set up. But the electronic parts even if found new are very old. That era electronics was not as robust as today's designs. Spontaneous or arbitrary failure is very real possibility. Just depends on what you want out of the tractor once it's running.

[oldredrider 2,548]

Just my opinion, but if you're going to do the conversion to battery/points ignition,  you should upgrade to the 15 amp stator and regulator. Used stators and regulators are easy to find and not that expensive. The 15 amp system will give you more capacity if adding additional electrical components to the tractor at a later date.

Edited April 5, 2017 by oldredrider

[formariz 11,987]

The options is yours as what you decide to do. However if you test your ignition system and it is good, at least for now it will allow you to run it and see if there are any other issues with that engine.. If you decide to keep that ignition  system, then #1 make sure that you use insulated connectors at rectifier and those connections are tight and secure never touching each other. #2 -- Stator is usually what goes and the most difficult part to get. However a little not much known fact is that that same stator is also used on other size engines like a K-181 just with a different part #. Your flywheel has an aluminum adapter to use that stator which has a smaller  circumference that a regular 15 Amp stator. The one for the K181 shows up more often and goes for much less money many times the same as a regular one many times NOS. As a precaution I would have a spare on hand if you want to keep that system.

Like everything else these things are easier to find when you don't really need them.

Edited April 5, 2017 by formariz

[Aldon 4,826]

If you have a running engine of any type, it might be good idea to install it and test the hydro. If that is shot or marginal, then it might factor heavily in what you wish to exert in way of money and time.

[953 nut 55,155]

10 hours ago, cafoose said:

 

 

Are you referring to the red wire with the yellow crimp on it?

That wire should be routed to the "M: terminal on the ignition switch, when the switch is Off it grounds the wire to the ignition unit, if you remove it that eliminates any potential grounds  in the wiring system. @oldredrider makes a good point on the 15 amp unit, when the electric clutch is activated it draws 10 amps and if you have lights on your battery is being discharged.

[cafoose 3,354]

Here are some more pictures of the wiring.

 

[formariz 11,987]

So the ones in the sleeve are the ones to the rectifier. The third one from stator goes to the trigger .From the second connection on the trigger(I  i believe) goes to coil. Just follow my instructions in the earlier post and give it a go.It may not be as bad as it looks.

Dont reverse the wires at the trigger or you will damage coil.

Edited April 11, 2017 by formariz

[HorseFixer 2,012]

So what does the rest of the tractor look like? I rewired a 520H that was the snow chucker. I feel your pain!  

[cafoose 3,354]

7 hours ago, HorseFixer said:

So what does the rest of the tractor look like? I rewired a 520H that was the snow chucker. I feel your pain!  

Here is my post when I first got the tractor with some :

 

 

[HorseFixer 2,012]

1 hour ago, cafoose said:

Here is my post when I first got the tractor with some :

 

Yeah I see I responded to that Post. Excuse me as you well know we all see so many!     When we get to know ya well then we will relate to the tractors you grab... Oh by the way not a bad looking GT14 well worth the rewiring in the long haul.   Good luck with it.

 

[cafoose 3,354]

I pulled the flywheel off today and got some more pictures. Where does the black wire go that I found disconnected under the flywheel? It leads to the bottom of the coil on the other end.

[formariz 11,987]

The plot thickens after seeing that. Stator and coil may be shot! 

 

You have a trigger mounted on bearing plate. It is a small cube with two connections.I see it dangling on your first photo, hopefully it wasn't like that. One is marked I the other one A. That black wire which should be soldered to the stator goes to trigger terminal A. Then from terminal I a wire goes to the bottom of ignition coil.

 

That black wire is always soldered to the wrapped winding and it goes under and in between windings to the other side where it comes out next to rectifier wires. It looks like someone has been under there already.

 

I would solder wire to its correct place (refer to my photos) and just put it all back , follow instructions on previous post and see if you have spark. If it fires its nothing short of a miracle but they do happen!

There are ways to test all of those components, but quite honestly, although I am not a professional, but also not a total idiot with these things, I had mixed results with testing sometimes just confusing me where a NOS one tests bad then installed and its good,  and known bad one tests good.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by formariz

[cafoose 3,354]

I was just looking at the wiring diagram and the stator has three wires coming from it. Two go to the rectifier and one goes to the trigger A terminal. All three wires are connected to the stator. The wire to the trigger A terminal is still soldered on. The wire under the flywheel that's disconnected comes from the bottom of the coil and the trigger I terminal. According to the diagram the disconnected end of the wire goes to the ignition switch M terminal. What puzzles me is why is it fed through the block and coming out behind the flywheel?