314-H has a noisy hydro and low on power

[George Washington 67]

I have only owned a few weeks and have not really put it through the wringer yet. I changed all fluids and filters, and the spark plug and drained the fuel and replaced with fresh plus a bit of Lucas. Got the hydro topped off today (they take forever to fill) and decided to try out the bagger system on some leaves. Overall I'm impressed with how quickly I got one bag half full (about 10 minutes) but I noticed that it was very slow going up a very moderate incline and also noticed that the hydro was squalling while raising and lowering the deck and when engaging the PTO - surely this isn't normal operation right? less than 500 hours, appears to have been very well maintained and the engine sounds fantastic otherwise. Any ideas? I had mentioned in a previous post that it seems very slow in forward gear - it seems like almost the same speed as reverse gear. Thanks in advance guys! I know you wont let me down.

[Adams94 1,068]

How does the belt look?

[George Washington 67]

27 minutes ago, Adams94 said:

How does the belt look?

the belt that runs the bagger attachment is not good - its split pretty good in a couple spots - I was going to just change it but thought I would see how long it would last me. Would that really cause all that noise? It sounds more like its coming from the hydro itself but I could be wrong

[Adams94 1,068]

4 minutes ago, George Washington said:

the belt that runs the bagger attachment is not good - its split pretty good in a couple spots - I was going to just change it but thought I would see how long it would last me. Would that really cause all that noise? It sounds more like its coming from the hydro itself but I could be wrong

Sorry I meant the hydro drive belt,  if it is slipping there could be an issue

[Ed Kennell 38,681]

Yeah, let's hope it is not in the hydro.     Some possibilities that would cause noise and slow speed are,  Llike Adam said, the drive belt. the idler pulley, the key in the hydro drive pulley.

Pull the belt guard off and check these things .   The motion cam could also cause the slow  speed problem, but not the noise.  Do you have the noise when the PTO is not engaged?

[George Washington 67]

19 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Yeah, let's hope it is not in the hydro.     Some possibilities that would cause noise and slow speed are,  Llike Adam said, the drive belt. the idler pulley, the key in the hydro drive pulley.

Pull the belt guard off and check these things .   The motion cam could also cause the slow  speed problem, but not the noise.  Do you have the noise when the PTO is not engaged?

I ran it again and its worse - not so much when engaging the PTO - just when going forward and reverse with nothing engaged - Ill try to check those things in a bit. What exactly am I looking for? This time around it barely went forward at all. Really hoping I didn't get taken to the cleaners on this one

[wfrpalm 218]

Make sure the cooling fan is good, I had that happen to my John Deere and when I checked all the blades  were missing from the fan.

[George Washington 67]

I did notice that the hydro drive belt seems loose. Does it only tighten up when the drive is engaged? And wouldn't I need to pull the back right wheel off to get a look at the pulley? Sorry for all the questions. I have zero experience with these

2 minutes ago, wfrpalm said:

Make sure the cooling fan is good, I had that happen to my John Deere and when I checked all the blades  were missing from the fan.

that's definitely good - all blades present - cosmetically this think looks amazing so I would be surprised if it were something major

 

Edited March 23, 2017 by George Washington
mistake

[Ed Kennell 38,681]

1 hour ago, George Washington said:

 . What exactly am I looking for?

To test the hydro, I would chain the tractor hitch to a tree.   Remove the belt guard.  Start the engine and engage the hydro.    Then slowly move the motion lever forward.  A good working tractor will spin the tires.    If this doesn't happen,  there are many reasons.  1.  The belt may be slipping on the PTO or hydro drive pulley.  2. The belt may be turning the hydro pulley but the pulley is slipping on the shaft due to a sheared key.  Look at the center of the pulley and make sure they are spinning at the same RPM. 3.  hydro axles may be turning, bot one of them may be slipping in the hub due to a sheared key.  Look at the center of each hub and make sure one of them is not spinning in the hub.  Check both of them as only one needs to be sheared.

If the tractor does spin the tires, but at a slow speed, there is probably a problem with the motion control lever linkage and / or cam.

If the hydro input shaft is turning at the correct RPM and neither axle is turning,  there is probably a problem inside the hydro.

[ericj 1,578]

did you recheck the fluid level in the trans ? sounds like it could have air in it.

 

 

 

 

 

eric j 

[George Washington 67]

Ok, bear with me here guys. I'm still learning. What exactly is the "cold start clutch" or as the manual calls it, the "cold start lever?" I put it in the down position and the tractor ran fine. Does this lever engage the hydro? If that's the case why would it run at all when in the up position (de-clutch)? Also, I tried the hydro test hooked up to a tree. Only one tire spun. Does this indicate a possible problem? Would a strong hydro spin both back tires? I know these are dumb questions but I'm willing to ask them. Maybe the next newbie won't make the same goofs I have. 

16 hours ago, ericj said:

did you recheck the fluid level in the trans ? sounds like it could have air in it.

 

 

 

 

 

eric j 

The fluid level is good. How would I go about making sure there is no air? It seems like this system would be prone to getting air during fillup

[pfrederi 17,885]

Pushing the lever down engaged the hydopump by pushing an idler pulley against the belt tightening it. Pulling it up takes the idler pulley away from the belt and it should stop turning the pump.  Do you have the belt guard  mounted?  There are guide pins on the engine that help the belt disengage they may need adjusting if the tractor will move when the lever is pulled up. 

 

Spinning only one wheel is normal you have an open differential.

[Ed Kennell 38,681]

4 hours ago, George Washington said:

Ok, I put it in the down position and the tractor ran fine. Does this lever engage the hydro?

Great, this is good news.  A much better solution than rebuilding the transmission.    Yes, like Paul said, this lever releases  the idler pulley so a spring can pull it against the belt to tighten it against the engine and transmission pulleys engaging the transmission.

I am surprised there is no decal adjacent to the lever with instructions on how to engage the transmission.

  I do have a question for any 312/ 314 experts.  My  312H  w/ Eaton 1100 does not have the transmission disengagement lever, is this due to the starter concerns on the larger engine?  

 

 

[ericj 1,578]

was the lever all the way up, like maybe only half way. Ed, I believe they stopped using the disengaging lever in the early 90's and now that I think about it I believe they stopped on the higher horse power tractors first. I have a 90 416-H, that I have to go look at and see if it does or doesn't have the lever. I remember years ago I bought a 314-H, I believe was a 93 or 95 that had the lever. good luck glad you figured it out before anything got damaged.

 

 

 

 

eric j 

[Ed Kennell 38,681]

Thanks Eric.  I actually went out to take a picture of mine to post here and that's when I discovered my '95 312H doesn't have a tranny lever.  

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

All the column mount shifter versions of the 520s I've been around don't have the belt tension levers, but the tunnel floor mount versions did, the 300 series I have no experience with, but the 417A I had was floor mount with the tension lever, Jeff.

Edited March 25, 2017 by WVHillbilly520H

[ericj 1,578]

the 314-H that i talked about above, I bought and brought it home and put it in the shed,I drove it in by the way,  when I park one with the the lever I always pull the lever up. I guess it's from my days of driving dad's 73 12 AUTO up through my first C120 AUTO . anyways I degress, the next day I went out to the shed to start tractor and when I pushed the lever down the tractor would not move. A moment of panic set in thinking that a tractor I just paid all of this money for, has a broken trans or something horrible just happened. so then I started to check it out and found the belt had broken. I came to the conclusion that when I released the lever and the idler pulley hit the belt the poor old belt could hold up and snapped. I don't think the previous owner ever used the lever. It scared the hell out of me for a few seconds anyways

 

 

 

 

eric j

[Ed Kennell 38,681]

My 875 (the first WH hydro) has the disengagement lever.  There are no safety switches, so, IMO,  the only reason to have the lever would be to make engine starting easier.

  All my C series hydros have the lever.  My '88 520 has the lever.   My '95 312 does not have the lever.  It appears the lever was eliminated about 1990.

If this is the case, I am guessing , the elimination  of the  levers in the later years was strictly for a cost savings.

 

 

If we give Garry a couple minutes research time, he will probably be able to confirm when and why this option was discontinued. 

Edited March 25, 2017 by Ed Kennell

[ericj 1,578]

the early hydro the lever was also the parking brake, it had what they called a parking paw on them. some of my C series with the sunstrand hydro's  have the paw broken on them from people trying to engage without coming to a complete stop. a very big NO NO.

 

 

 

 

 

eric j

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,096]

Some of that belt tension mechanism goes back to 1980 so suspect it was only to ease the starter load.

The 1995 314-H shares an operator manual with the 416-H. The 314-H has the tension release feature and the 416-H doesn't.

In 1991 only the 312-H had it. No 14hp models in 1991-92. The 416-H did not have it.

None had it in 1990.

 

Garry

[DennisinTN 0]

I have a 314H with the lever and had the same problems.... Noisy lack of power. Figured out the the lever was not putting enough pressure on the pulley when lever is down. Not sure it it is supposed to have a spring to hold pulley. As soon as I put a little down  pressure on the lever the tractor takes off. It's a little weird looking mowing with my foot on the lever but gets the job done till I can get it figured out. 

[R Scheer 502]

FWIW

 

I have a 92 312H and it does not have this lever.

 

[953 nut 55,812]

On 5/26/2019 at 12:18 AM, DennisinTN said:

I have a 314H with the lever and had the same problems.... Noisy lack of power. Figured out the the lever was not putting enough pressure on the pulley when lever is down. Not sure it it is supposed to have a spring to hold pulley. As soon as I put a little down  pressure on the lever the tractor takes off. It's a little weird looking mowing with my foot on the lever but gets the job done till I can get it figured out. 

 

18 hours ago, R Scheer said:

FWIW

 

I have a 92 312H and it does not have this lever.

 

This is an old post and you will be best off to start a new post with pictures of the items you are speaking of.

Use this link to start your new posts.   https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/49-transmissions-and-transaxles/?do=add