5003 gaskets

[john7 162]

I am going to have to pull my 5003 trans apart to replace the bronze bearings in the near future because of a leak. Does anyone know where I can get a set of gaskets? I found some on ebay last year but can't seem to find them on there anymore. Thanks in advance.

[rmaynard 15,618]

I'm pretty sure that you are going to have to make your own gasket. 

[Racinbob 11,238]

They are easy to make but if you'd rather not contact @Jake Kuhn He sells them and they are perfectly cut.

[WHX?? 49,189]

Lots of guys just use the gasket maker in a tube with no problems, ask for the tube for sealing truck rear ends at any auto parts counter. I still prefer Jakes... I don't end up with half the tube on my pants!

[john7 162]

Yeah, I figured I may end up needing to make my own.

 

I have plenty of gasket material... I wonder what guys are using to cut them out in perfect shape? Maybe I can make up a jig and cut them out with a router.

 

I'll shoot jake a pm first and go from there.

 

Thanks for the thoughts guys!

 

 

[WHX?? 49,189]

You can always go old school and make your own John. ... coat the housing with a thin coat of oil or grease and impress it onto some appropriate gasket material.  Use an axacto knife to cut around the template and you have your gasket! Quite time consuming but if you enjoy making your own so be it.

Edited March 16, 2017 by WHX9

[953 nut 55,874]

One step further on Jim's method, make a hole in the gasket material and place a bolt in it to align the gasket to the case. Using the ball end of a small ball-pein hammer you can tap lightly on each opening to make perfect circular cut in the paper. Drop bolts onto the openings as you make them to maintain alignment.

[slim67 2,735]

I laid my trans. casing on top a sheet of gasket material and traced it out on both sides. I used scissors to cut them out and a hole punch for the holes. It worked beautifully.

[stevasaurus 22,881]

Guys...on the 5003 and 5010 transmissions you can just reach into the casting and trace the gasket and the holes with a pen and then cut with a razor knife.      A hole punch 5/16" can be purchased at ACE for a few bucks for that professional look. 

Slim and I posted at the same time. 

Edited March 16, 2017 by stevasaurus

[slim67 2,735]

3 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

Guys...on the 5003 and 5010 transmissions you can just reach into the casting and trace the gasket and the holes with a pen and then cut with a razor knife.      A hole punch 5/16" can be purchased at ACE for a few bucks for that professional look. 

Slim and I posted at the same time. 

Great minds think alike. Who knows someday I may be one of the senior members here.

[john7 162]

Sounds like a perfect idea. And I'll bet scissors will work pretty good as well. I'll give it a go once my bronze bearings get here. Thanks for the ideas!

 

 

[slim67 2,735]

2 hours ago, john7 said:

Sounds like a perfect idea. And I'll bet scissors will work pretty good as well. I'll give it a go once my bronze bearings get here. Thanks for the ideas!

 

 

if you are replacing the bronze bushings in the axle tubes, you will likely have to hone them. I am rebuilding a 5010 and recently had to do that in order to get the axle shafts to fit. I used a hone for brake cylinders and that worked great. Read Stevasaurus thread on rebuilding these transmissions for all the info you need.

[john7 162]

Slim, I read those threads back a year ago or so and am aware of the need for a hone. But, I'm curious as to what grit stones would be recommended? Looks like most brake hones from the auto parts store are going to come with 240.. This seems a bit rough to me... but then again I've never honed bronze before. Any thoughts are appreciated.

[slim67 2,735]

I dont think you have a lot of choices unfortunately. The fact that my honing tool even fit was good enough for me. I did not notice a excessive amount of material being removed during the process. It took me a good 1/2 hour to get them where the axle shafts fit. Maybe Stevasaurus will chime in since he did the thread that i read for my rebuild. I think you will be fine with a brake cylinder hone since they are more for finishing than boring. If you know a machine shop, that would be an option.

[Racinbob 11,238]

A brake cylinder is the way to go for me. It does take a while but the end results are great

Spoiler

 

 

[john7 162]

I'm sure honing them will do the trick! But I can't help but be curious to know if the hone leaves the bearing ID surface rougher than required, causing wear on the axle. But, then again it's not like it will be turning 10,000 rpms. And the tolerances on this trans aren't too precise. 

 

I heard that a mystical chart exists that will tell you what size OD and ID bearings to use so that you can achieve a perfect fit. Once pressed in the ID will tighten to the desired measurement, thus eliminating the need for a ream or hone. But of course I discovered this after I ordered the bearings! 

 

Thanks for the thoughts! I'll be picking up the hone tomorrow and giving it a go!

 

[WHX?? 49,189]

Racinbob knows...You wont find rhe perfect fit John but any brake cylinder hone available at one of the popular auction sites work......most are 220 grit and will take abit with a cordless drill motor  but just hone away till you get a snug fit & rinse the the stones often. They do get plugged  with grit. They will be smoother than a baby's bottom when done. Flip your axles if they are rough, I would tell you how but @Racinbob might sue me for patent infringement! 

[john7 162]

Awesome. And I think I read a thread where someone flipped the axles and drilled new holes. I've done the transmission once already and I didn't go through it as well as I should have. So this time around I want to make sure I do everything possible to ensure flawless performance. 

[Racinbob 11,238]

Here's the charts you were referring to.

If there's wear on the axle where it rides on the bushing you can simply flip them by drilling a hole for the roll pin that retains the axle gear. That puts the worn area where it doesn't ride on anything. No, @WHX9 I can't sue you. I wasn't the first person to do that

John, you're right on the tolerances not being real tight. You may discover as I did that an axle will fit in the bushing fine one at a time but when you snug the side plates it binds them up. I had that happen and was chasing what I thought was the problem. I was fine with the bolts finger tight but when I torqued them it was bind city. I thought I was I was pinching the differential between the plates. Once I convinced myself that I wasn't doing that I discovered that the axle tubes on the side plates weren't perfectly lined up. The only way to get around it was to give the axles a little more clearance in the bushings. A bit more honing and all was good. Then there was the problem of the welded ring that holds the bearing by the mushroom gear. It was about .010" out of round and it bound up the bearing once pressed in.

[WHX?? 49,189]

After I had gone through my first 3 piece I was worried that I couldn't push the tractor by hand with out the tires skidding while my other tractors you could push with one finger. After some seat time the axles nested into the bushings just fine and good to go for another 50 years.

[stevasaurus 22,881]

These 3 piece transmissions are fairly sloppy.  For that reason, I usually take some rougher sand paper and bend it around my finger so it fits in the axle tube.  Standing there for 1/2 hour with a brake hone is just not in my attention span.  I'll even use a 7/8" grinding thingy for a drill to speed up the process.  I finish with the hone to smooth everything back.  I stop a lot of times to check the fit with the axle, and work the area that is still tight.  Reaming with a 1" reamer would be the ultimate, but even with that you may want to open the hole a little more because of what happened to Bob.  I went through one that Stevebo rebuilt where the axles were binding and had to hone a little more slop in to the bronze.  Don't be afraid to make it a good loose fit...if it is too tight you will not know until you finish bolting it all together...and then you have to take it completely apart to fix it.    I use the grinding bit on a vari-speed drill, and hone.

Edited March 22, 2017 by stevasaurus

[john7 162]

@stevasaurus, I've read through a few of your threads on this transmission, especially the 9 pager you did a year ago on the 4 transmissions. Since you seem to be the foremost knowledge on this subject maybe you can clarify a few questions that I have.

 

- The 3 unground bearings are proving to be difficult to find. You show them in one of your threads as being the Nice 412-35. I found a Nice 412-35 V BRG on Motion Industries website, is this the same bearing? I did find the Nice SRM125208BF18 which seems to be the same as the 412-35 . Can you tell me if this is what I need? Or am I missing something? (I'm not too fluent in bearing speak!)

- Also, the parts list calls for the axle tube bronze bearings to have an OD of 1 1/8", leading me to believe that the axle tube has a 1 1/8" ID. However, the SKF part number 9815 (the internal axle tube seal) shows an OD of 1 1/4". Is this right? Can I really squeeze the 1 1/4" seal into the 1 1/8" axle tube?

 

I'm hoping you can clarify before I go ahead and order all these parts. Thanks in advance!

[stevasaurus 22,881]

OK John...checked on a few things.  I happened on this link and ended up in a chat with this guy (Larry) in California.  He says he has the NICE 412-35 bearings and you can buy either 1, 2 or 3 at a time.  Kelly Supply has them also, but you had to buy them in lots of 10.  The bearings from below are priced at $7.95 ea and shipping is $13.  If you want to get these, I talked with Larry at 1-800-409-3632 ext. 7014.    If you found this bearing on Motion Industries site, can you find it again and give me the catalog number?

http://www.locateballbearings.com/Results.aspx

 

We also have @Jake Kuhn ( a vendor on RS) who sells these bearings and the bronze and the S8K bearings and all the seals and the gaskets.  I think you are going to have to get the axle seals from him.  The axle seals are a TORO only seal.  You are correct that the bronze bearing is 1 1/8" OD...1" ID.  The seal that Wheel Horse went to on these RJs is a "cap" seal.  It goes on the outside of the axle housing.  I should have a picture of it in my files.  I think you want to use the "cap" seal either with or without the # SKF 9815.  BTW, to answer your question of the #9815 fitting...if you look at the end of your axle tube, you will see that a place was widened for the 9815 seal to fit with it's 1 1/4" OD.  If you do not have that ridge in there, then you have to use the cap seal.  #83-2840.  Just so you know, those cap seals are in the $20 apiece range.    Here is a pic that shows the ridge for the 9815 to fit.

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2017 by stevasaurus

[john7 162]

Okay great! I'm aware that the internal seal was done away with shortly after the rj58 went into production and was replaced by the cap seal, and that the later models could not accept the internal seal (mine is an earlier 5003 that will take the 9815 seal). HOWEVER, why I asked about this was that from reading your thread last night I saw that you were "double sealing" one of the transmissions, which sounds like a good thing to do to me, and I have found some for around $2 a piece.. so why not? And thanks for clarifying about the internal seal (9815) and how it was accepted into the axle tube.. I will be ordering a couple today.

 

So I found 2 other bearings, one with motion industries and one with MSC. Not very sure if they are interchangeable yet, but I have a good feeling about the one from MSC:

1) Motion Industries part #: 00105193, Nice Part #: 412-35 V BRG, (my gut tells me this won't work but there are no specs on MI's website).

Link - https://www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=00105193

2) MSC part #: 59145128, Nice part #: SRM125208BF18, (I got ahold of a rep from here and he is looking into this for me, I'll let you know if he gets back to me)

Link - https://www.mscdirect.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/details/59145128

 

Thanks for letting me know where I can find these bearings. I actually just ordered something from Jake Kuhn yesterday, I need to PM him and see if I can get him to throw in those bearings with my other stuff. Hope he hasn't shipped yet!

 

Lastly, I clicked on the link you posted for locateballbearings. There are a whole bunch of numbers and letters I don't understand. I'm guessing that any of these are interchangeable? and do you suggest one over the others? I'm not a fan of China stuff!

[stevasaurus 22,881]

Use that phone number for Larry that I posted...he was very helpful and knowledgeable...don't try to use the web site...although it did offer up a chat thingy and I used it...very cool, that was where I found Larry.  After he figured out that I knew what I was talking about, he asked for my phone number and called me.  excellent...I do the same thing sometimes to save typing.    I will take a look at your numbers above and let you know.  Thanks 

 

Good luck trying to get away from stuff not made in the USA. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by stevasaurus