D200/180 Hydro Motor Compatibility

[BrianK 58]

Ok Wheel Horse wizards.  I'm looking at getting some spare parts for my C-160. Came across a motor for a D series and it looks the same as whats on my standard system, even has the same part number on the manifold housing, except for one thing.  Anyone know why the shaft is sticking out past the pump end cap? I don't see this in the manual.  Are they compatible? Looks like some type of consumer modified secondary pto.

 

[pfrederi 17,895]

Later models had a real brake.  It was a drum on the end of the hydro motor and a band similar to the one used on C series and others.  I do not have such an animal so I can't be sure

  you should be able to use the motor on your c series and if you rounded up enough parts even have real brakes.

[BrianK 58]

24 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Later models had a real brake.  It was a drum on the end of the hydro motor and a band similar to the one used on C series and others.  I do not have such an animal so I can't be sure

  you should be able to use the motor on your c series and if you rounded up enough parts even have real brakes.

 

Awesome, thanks for the info.  One of the parts im looking for is the shaft. Id either have to modify it to work in the c-160 housing or find a way to seal the end off.  Hmm...Unless I added the brake, of course.

Edited March 13, 2017 by BrianK

[pfrederi 17,895]

I should have been more clear you would have to add the brakes to use it. 

 

 

Edit:  Having second thoughts on this have you pulled the cover to see if the shaft is sealed???

Edited March 13, 2017 by pfrederi

[pfrederi 17,895]

Here is the parts diagram for the brake as used on c-165a

[BrianK 58]

Unfortunately this assembly isn't in my possession. I was wondering that as well; whether or not there was some type of shaft seal. 

[daveoman1966 3,762]

If it was me, use the 'D' serier motor as a complete replacement of the failed 'C-160'.  These parts have been friends now for 40+ years and may not play well if mixed.... 

Consider these:  

1) is the driver GEAR the same....count teeth & diameter...if so,

2) MAYBE...just cut off the 'D' series shaft to the length of the 'C' shaft and put the 'C' cover plate on...with new O-ring seal.

3) Before to replace the hyd pump MOTOR, open it up to inspect the PISTON SLIPPERS and VALVE PLATE...refinish if necessary.  It should look like this:

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by daveoman1966

[BrianK 58]

6 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

Consider these:  

1) is the driver GEAR the same....count teeth & diameter...if so,

2) MAYBE...just cut off the 'D' series shaft to the length of the 'C' shaft and put the 'C' cover plate on...with new O-ring seal.

3) Before to replace the hyd pump MOTOR, open it up to inspect the PISTON SLIPPERS and VALVE PLATE...refinish if necessary.  It should look like this:

 

 

 

Thought of that as well Dave. Ill have to cross-reference the rest of the parts to get a better idea, ie: pump housing ID, bearings etc and if they're identical all id have to do is chuck up the shaft in the lathe and shave er down. 

[BrianK 58]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

Here is the parts diagram for the brake as used on c-165a

 

Do you know if this is a diagram from the hydro/trans manual, owners manual etc? Looking up the 165A and D series take me to the manual I already have; Hydrogear and Piston-Piston 1965 - 1982.  I would have thought it would show the alternate motor shaft and any other changes. According to my research the last year 165 was made in '82. Unless I missed something, which is entirely possible. 

[pfrederi 17,895]

Keep in mind I do not have one of these braked sundtrands but looking at the parts pic if you got seal #42 you could use the motor as is...just have the shaft sticking out.

 

http://www.wheelhorseforum.com/files/file/3620-tractor-1980-c-165-auto-da-tipl-snpdf/

 

Make sure you look at the S part manual section.  there is also one for E eaton won't help

 

#42 is WH200252  CR6903

[daveoman1966 3,762]

The 3 pics I posted are those of a D-180.  I have HUNDREDS of photos of my rebuild of this Sundstrand unit...pump and motor.  

Someone said to "Just add the Brake hardware" but hat MAY not work due to side clearance....The D series has a wider wheel base to accommodate the exterior brake drum.  

Since you have a machine lathe, best bet is to chuck it up and clip off the end. Then put the End Cap from the C-160 to close it up.

[pfrederi 17,895]

But C-165s had band brakes on the hydro motor so there was clearance for them.??? Try it.

 

[BrianK 58]

Ok, well I bought the motor and bought a shaft seal; SKF 6903.  Both will be here in a few days so I will tear down the motor for an initial inspection. Unknown condition but it was cheap so I took the risk. Ill probably refurb it even if it doesn't need it since I'll have it tore down anyway. I should be able to tell fairly quickly if it's compatible...which it should be. If it doesn't need anything major replaced I'll throw the seal on it and put it in the tractor. Then we can all learn somethin...

 

If all's well I'll have a complete spare piston-piston hydro setup for the 160...you know, for when my son destroys the one that's on it.

["D"- Man 827]

On 3/13/2017 at 5:23 PM, daveoman1966 said:

The 3 pics I posted are those of a D-180.  I have HUNDREDS of photos of my rebuild of this Sundstrand unit...pump and motor.  

Someone said to "Just add the Brake hardware" but hat MAY not work due to side clearance....The D series has a wider wheel base to accommodate the exterior brake drum.  

Since you have a machine lathe, best bet is to chuck it up and clip off the end. Then put the End Cap from the C-160 to close it up.

 

Dave, are these pics and rebuild on a thread in any RS posts?

[daveoman1966 3,762]

31 minutes ago, "D"- Man said:

Dave, are these pics and rebuild on a thread in any RS posts?

Not that I have posted.  There MAY be some tutorials, but I don't recall posting any....although I may have, just in the course of helping out members.  I also MAY have a MS Word. .doc laying out the steps / process.  Will have a look-see in my pc files.  Ideally, a Youtube video would be the bomb, but I don't have the savy to make such a video, let alone post it.  If I find a good MS Word.doc narrative with loads of pics describing the process, how do I post as a thread in RS.     

["D"- Man 827]

Thanks Dave, it would take someone far more tech savvy than myself to know how to do that, I have to ask one of my three sons how to do simple things on the computer let alone advanced bits.

[BrianK 58]

27 minutes ago, "D"- Man said:

Thanks Dave, it would take someone far more tech savvy than myself to know how to do that, I have to ask one of my three sons how to do simple things on the computer let alone advanced bits.

 

This might help get you started.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by BrianK