Newbie trying to understand transmissions

[erendin 2]

I'm new and this is my first post

 

I'm currently looking at a 1978  C-101  8 speed w/ 400 original hours. 

 

When I was a kid my uncle had an electro 12 that was automatic, both the mowing deck and the power to the wheels was automatic transmission.

 

I mowed w/ it for 3 or 4 years as a young teenager, don't remember much more than that.

 

So basically I know nothing about these tractors.

 

So I have a few questions:

 

1) Am I understanding correctly that the C-101 is completely manual, you are manually pulling levers to both raise and lower the mowing deck and/or attachments as well as shifting through the gears to move the tractor?

 

2) Did my uncle's old electro 12 have a hydrostatic transmission that powered the deck / attachments, and then a 2nd transmission to power to the rear wheels? Is that correct?

 

3) How much more convenient / desirable would it be to have an automatic machine vs the C-101?

 

I will be mowing an acre and a half lawn in central KY. Don't plan to do too much more than that.

 

I'm not interested in a new $1500 piece of junk mower from Lowe's that's going to bust a deck in the first 24 months. And equally against the thought of a $5000 zero turn that will burn through hydros every 4 to 5 years.

 

From what I understand, there's a good chance a well maintained wheel horse tractor would still be running strong by the time my grandkids are old enough to mow.

 

That's what brought me here

 

Thanks in advance for any info

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[12 hp Kohler 1,014]

the part about your grand kids being able to mow with that  mower is defenetly true.

Edited March 10, 2017 by 12 hp Kohler

[littleredrider 409]

I personally don't like hydros. They can go at any moment without warning. Course the same can be said for a gear tranny. But it depends what you want to do with the tractor. Each has their advantages and disadvantages. Mowing the lawn a hydro would be nice, one level to go back and forth. Gears require pushing the clutch, selecting gear, then going back to whatever gear. But with a gear, you could leave it in one gear without having to hold the lever or foot control to maintain speed. I've heard that hydros are meant to be wide open, not idled or part throttle. I don't know how accurate that is, but I know a gear doesn't require that. They both require maintenance, but I've had gears from the 60s with nasty sludge in the tranny, and after being flushed they worked fine. That can't be said for a hydro.....

[rmaynard 15,383]

 

Yes to your first inquiry. A manual uses all human muscle power to shift and lift. I'm 67 and that's all I ever used until last year when I got  hydro. Now I let the tractor do all the work. On the Electro 12, the hydrostatic transmission pump powered the transmission and also powered the lift for the accessories. The deck was powered by the electric power take-off and a belt. The third question is just a matter of choice. Some prefer hydro and other prefer manual.

 

 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

4 minutes ago, littleredrider said:

 I've heard that hydros are meant to be wide open, not idled or part throttle. I don't know how accurate that is, but I know a gear doesn't require that. They both require maintenance, but I've had gears from the 60s with nasty sludge in the tranny, and after being flushed they worked fine. That can't be said for a hydro.....

Might disagree a bit there as long as the cooling fan is working idling to WOT shouldn't make a difference but they don't idle the engine as its air cooled also and relies on the flywheel to pull air over the cooling fins ,faster better?  Secondly the 520 I bought last spring had water in the hydro oil/sludge but drained refilled and new filter and mowed all summer no problems, Jeff

[Ed Kennell 37,870]

 to the      Bob has answered all your questions.  So I will only add my  to the age old hydro/gear drive discussion.

 

IMO, a hydro with hydraulic lift and foot control  is absolutely necessary when moving snow with a blower.  For the blower to operate efficiently, the engine must be kept at WOT and the forward speed must be varied to keep the blower full of snow.   You can only do this with a hydro.  

I feel the same is true when mowing ....max RPM for the blades and vary  the forward motion  as the mowing load changes.

Needless to say,  old guys prefer to let the hyd lift take care of lifting any implement.  Most of us have tennis elbows and torn rotator cuffs on the left side from pulling lift levers.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

9 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

  Most of us have tennis elbows and torn rotator cuffs on the left side from pulling lift levers.

Unless you came from a Cub Cadet family like me then it's your right side , of course now it's all in the wrist with the 520s...

[Ed Kennell 37,870]

Never had a Yellow one Jeff,  So, luckily my right arm is ok.   I use it for  lifting large beverages.   

[can whlvr 993]

the 101 is a good tractor,it will do anything you ask of it but sometimes at a slower speed,if the grass is long you need to slow down,but all in all a great tractor,they are the in between of the older style horses and newer,heres a pic of my restored 1978 c 101,every nut and bolt including tranny and complete engine rebuild.

[N3PUY 1,031]

I mow a very large yard with a 416-8.  (that's a manual)

Procedure is ... full throttle ... drop the deck ... shift to 2nd or 3rd ... release the clutch and GO, GO, GO!

Deck never needs raised.

Motor never changes speed.

No need to clutch or shift.

 

I plow snow with a C125 (also manual)

It's probably faster than a Hydro.... plow is instant up or down.

Look here.

 

 

[wallfish 16,927]

Go grab that low hour C-101. Bet you'll be happy with it if it's in the condition we think a 400 hour tractor should be in.

I prefer a manual tractor too and there were thousands upon thousands of them sold, so they had to be easy to use.

Don't let those old men fool ya, the manual lift lever will easily lift that mower deck. No need for hydro lift for just a deck. Snow blower is a different story

[Ed Kennell 37,870]

                                                      I totally agree with the FISH.     IMO, the C series was the best tractors WH made.  The C-101 would be a great economical mower.

The only problem I have with mine,  I don't like to get it dirty.

[clueless 2,974]

40 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

                                                      I totally agree with the FISH.     IMO, the C series was the best tractors WH made.  The C-101 would be a great economical mower.

The only problem I have with mine,  I don't like to get it dirty.

What John and Ed said. If all your mainly going to do is cut grass the C105-8 is all you need, though it's capable of much more. With a 42" rear discharge deck and in 2nd gear, not much it won't cut with one pass. Acre and a half in second is a two beer cut depending on how hot it is. Now if it looks like Eds just ride around on it, but still have the beer. Go Get It!

[daveoman1966 3,745]

Your question about WOT applies to the engine, not necessarily the manual or Automatic trans.  You should keep the engine at least 3/4 throttle to keep adequate cooling air flow, as well as to splash the crankcase oil for engine lube.  Sure, it is ok to let it idle for a short while, but not for hours on end.  In conjunction with that, occasionally pull the engine sheet metal to clear any debris that would impede the air flow. 

IMHO... The C-160 Automatics with hyd lift are the best from Wheelhorse...hand down.  Effortless to lift ANY attachment and, if you have lots of roots, sidewalks, or other obstructions, the deck just lifts up with a finger pull...strong left arm pull not needed.  I also like the C-160 auto for maneuverability around all the little trees, shrubs, clothes lines, etc that everybody has.  Just move the motion lever back and forth to wiggle around anything.  

  

[Sarge 3,462]

Like Dave and others said - if it's a C series , grab it - they are by far one of their best model lines despite the ugly nose , lol . I prefer the hydro , at least with the hydraulic lifts you have a lot more options and can use down pressure on the blade , ect....not to mention the pumps in the C's are nearly bullet proof . Biggest issue with any hydro is how they were cared for - they need an oil change once a year depending upon abuse/hours , most owners never changed the oil and filter - that's where the bad rap comes from . Properly maintained , the hydro will outlive most owners....

 

Sarge

[pfrederi 17,580]

I have a 418A (with foot control) and  C175-8 set up for mowing.  I actually use the gear drive more.   Sort of like the  Ronco TV commercials..."Set it and Forget it".  Don't lift the deck very often and it isn't that hard.  Mow in 2nd up and down hills no speed changes.

[WHX?? 48,587]

Sounds like the guys got it all sorted out so I will just