1990 520h Trans is Jerky from Fwd to Rvs

[evanloock 221]

My 1988 520-HC has the same play, but no jerkiness in operation between forward and reverse.

[Duramax7man7 506]

Ah HA! See! lol  

Do you experience any grunting of the Eaton when shifting directions?

 

I hoping that it's just gummed up a little. So whenever I do pull this thing apart is there a good way to de-gum stuff? What type of solvent would be best?
 Also know that I need to secure the steel spheres in their original dwelling to maintain proper balance, so I will take measures for that.

 

[evanloock 221]

Never been inside an Eaton 1100 pump as this tractor is the only one I have with this pump.  I've only had this tractor for a year.  It has 851 hours.  Never experience any "grunting" or other odd noises in operation and when changing directions.  I believe there is a service manual for the Eaton 1100 in the files area of this site.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

Now this is just my experiences as I bought my first 520H brand new in 1998 (and still have it), after being in a CUB CADET family with manual transmissions the hydro takes some time to get "used" to but after 19 years it's like second nature to me using the hand stalk and yes they are a bit finicky to feather without "jerkiness" but all the hydros I've been on have some and the pump makes noises some more some less, and as long as you can put than tractor up against something solid on concrete and spin the tires the pump is still strong, I have always used Castrol GTX 10w30 since new and slowly been going to the "High Milage" version and have always used the Toro filter as the the one time I tried the NAPA/WIX on this particular 520 it made more noises and seemed a bit more jerky to me, I would suggest pulling the fenders and fuel tank and cleaning the pump fins and trans case really good (see pictures) and draining/flushing and refilling with a Toro filter before tearing it completely apart, and with the lift cylinder drifting down after a little while, mine has done that since new hasn't worried me one bit when it doesn't lift a snow blower or tiller then I'd would have some concerns, on another note I also have a 520xi with foot control and I'm personally am not a big fan vs the hand control but that's 19 years second nature vs 6 months new to me like all the manual trans fans vs hydro, (no foot pedal drive on a ZTR), again just my personal experiences/opinions, Jeff.

[Duramax7man7 506]

Okay,

 

 Yes it does seem like the regular noise that it makes it like the other videos of 520's working. After working the tractor for about 45+ minutes today it did seem a bit smoother between directions. Maybe I just need time to get fully used to it as I've been mainly using the 312-8 for plowing during the winter. BUT, I am using the WIX Filter I think. I will get the Toro and see if that helps. I will be addressing the drain issue of the plug soon. It's been rubbed and needs to be worked out slowly. I haven't done the grip test yet but when pushing some grass covered mounding today and hitting some roots it didn't have any problem pushing the 42" plow over on it's springs. Even at a slow pace. I will get some video tomorrow of the sound and action of the jerkiness and see if it seems normal to you.

 After purchasing this particular tractor and was bringing it into running and operating condition I did tear it down to the fuel tank, rolling frame and motor with all but the hood off and power washed everything including the trans fins. This thing had all but one trans cooling fan fin busted off. Has a new one though now. Good to hear that you prefer the lever over the pedal, although I would eventually like to get the pedal on it at least to try it out. I'm not a trendy person but this seems like more a hands free option especially when I want to eventually put a FEL on this or my 95' 312-8. Which I would eventually consider a 2-3 cylinder diesel on first.

 

 Anyway, thanks for chiming in with experience and advice! I always appreciate this site for that from everyone. Diversity of opinion is good.

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

I have owned a 1989 520-H with the motion control between my legs and a 1990 520-H with the column control. The 1989 was far easier to control!  If you can't do Matt's foot pedal at this point you might consider finding the parts to retrofit the older version. A used parts vendor should be able to help. Probably way cheaper to do. It does away with the additional linkage that I feel is causing your problem.

 

Don't be concerned with the noise. Hopefully you installed a Wix 1410. Save your money as the Toro filter is not going to improve the operation.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2017 by shallowwatersailor

[cleat 6,397]

Filter only goes on the return from the lift so no effect on motion.

 

I loaded the rear tires on my first 520 so it had even more traction.

 

At that point, if you moved to motion lever too fast between reverse and stop position

it would actually make the front wheels pop off the ground and nearly fling you off the seat.

 

Moving the lever too fast between forward and stop would really jerk you as well.

 

When the lever hits the center stop position, it really wants everything to stop instantly.

 

Gradually moving the lever to the stop position helps this a lot.

 

I think so long as you think of the center position as stop vs neutral it will make more sense.

 

Cleat

[WHX?? 49,189]

Yikes Jeff you want to borrow my pressure washer?!?!?

12 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

tried the NAPA/WIX on this particular 520 it made more noises

What kinda noise? Mine seems to have a loud whine with a 1410. Worse when colder but still there after warm up. I have no experience with the OEM filter & took John's advice and took off a non correct Fram  and went with the 1410/Mob 1 for the cold weather performance which I think has been good. . My 416 has no noise at all, hot or cold (except for lift cyl noise)  at all & will have to see what's on it for a filter.  Wouldn't think a filter would be a cause of noise??

[Duramax7man7 506]

@shallowwatersailor Gotcha. I'm using this WIX Filter 51410...

 

@cleat Thanks and yes that's basically what I'm training myself to do as it stop when the tractor is in neutral so feather it down slowly works fine. So feather down to stop then feather into the reverse and vs versa.

 

@WHX9 I agree for the most part. I hear the whine as well. When I stop the tractor and put it quickly in motion in either direction that whine that is normal heard turns to a grunt like whine. Like it all of the sudden has a pressure change. I'm guessing it's just a normal thing as everything seems to operate fine.

 

 I'll try and get a video up in little while of the sound...

[Duramax7man7 506]

Okay,

 So here is the video I shot this afternoon. You can hear the sounds pretty well and see some of the jerkiness. Watch all of the way through as I show the tractor from two angles.... 

 

 

 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

To me all the noises you hear are pretty much normal hydro whine and same with the lift cylinder squeal when the pressure valve hits it's limits, the "grunt" is when the pressure is spooling up in the pump when engaging forward and reverse, also the friction adjustment on the trans linkage is real finicky to adjust properly too loose and the shifter just creeps back to neutral and a tad too tight maybe causing the "jerkiness" it's a fine line there, BTW  I'm not knocking the Napa/Wix filters but in my particular tractor/experince the Toro filter is quieter/smoother than the Wix and only $1-2 difference where I get them and I know this might be different in some people's minds but I have a buddy who works in a Chevy dealership and #1 complaint is low oil pressure or engine knocking/rattling noise #1 culprit aftermarket filters also same with Toyota's, food for thought! so is a dollar or 2 saved really worth the aggravation just my 2¢, and "high mileage" formula oils have more of the ingredients (zddp) lacking in the newer grades of oil due to clogging catalytic converters (which hey clog 'em up that's what keeps me a job) 

[ACman 7,621]

 

 

12 hours ago, WHX9 said:

My 416 has no noise at all, hot or cold (except for lift cyl noise)  at all & will have to see what's on it for a filter.  Wouldn't think a filter would be a cause of noise??

 

My 520 has lift cyl noise too , hoping nothing serious .

 

We sold Allis Chalmers for years and also Wix filters . We always tried recommending OEM filters but in some cases the prices were outrageous  ! So Wix it was ...Now if we're talking 2-stokes I only use the manufacturers brand oil  but that's a whole different subject.

[Sarge 3,463]

I'd say it's a combination of two things - that hydro lever is short and is being moved a bit too fastfar at once , you sort of have to move it and wait for the thing to start moving forward , then add more motion control . Move it too far , along with old oil and acting a bit sticky and it jerks . I'd get the oil changed , use the Toro filter and see what happens after a few hours of operation at full temperature . I'd recommend draining that oil while it's at full temperature as well - that always seems to help clean things out better .

 

Sarge

[Duramax7man7 506]

Good ideas! Thank you Sarge! I will get that filter ordered.

 

This is the right one?

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

3 hours ago, Mastiffman said:

Good ideas! Thank you Sarge! I will get that filter ordered.

 

This is the right one?

Yep Toro 79-5270 and FYI  Baldwin BT8486 will work too, Jeff.

Edited March 10, 2017 by WVHillbilly520H

[Duramax7man7 506]

Okay, thank you.

[Duramax7man7 506]

So you get the same desired performance from both of these filters?

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

I believe so as that's what was on the last 520 I bought ,low noise and mild to no jerkiness and an extra one came with from P.O. and I just drained refilled fresh and installed that new filter today, the drained oil still looked light tan/honey colored so I would say same desired performance and the parts store that carries them locally was only $13, Jeff.

[BrianK 58]

Tractor sounds normal to me. I don't have an eaton but I do have a sundstrand that is similar, if memory serves me ATM.  To me, your jerkiness is a sign of a good strong pump. I would be more concerned if it sort of "stalled" and took extra time to build pressure. I have the same thing you describe on my c-160; jerking as well as the sound.  In fact, I can pop the front tires off the ground now if I move the lever too fast, its that jerky, but adjusting speed while moving and once the oil is warm its much smoother. I run 10W-30 Mobil 1 Synthetic.  I think its just simply the design of the motor and at least, on my tractor, its that way because I don't have "brakes". Its a dynamic braking system based solely off pump pressure.  The controls are a bit crude and the length of travel/throw for these pumps is far too short for the swash plate, IMO. Needs better linkage. I work on and around probably 50 or more hydro pumps of all kinds for my day job and all of them have a constant whine and grunt while loading pressure. As long as you're not hearing any metal on metal, pinging, grinding, knocking, ticking, scraping, scratching etc. I think you're good to go. FWIW I've used Wix filters on my vehicles with Mobil 1 for over 15 years now and they've never let me down. Wix is a large company and I haven't found a re-branded product they make I wasn't happy with, ie: Napa, Mobil 1 etc. I had a Napa/Wix 1410 on after I rebuilt my pump and motor a couple months ago. After the oil change a couple weeks ago I put on a Toro. I'm skeptical because I don't know who makes it.  I've done some research and I cant find any info. Every time I look at it I pray to baby jesus it isn't made by Fram or the like. If I find out it is, id leave work early to get that vile, nasty cardboard and paper towel stuffed disgrace off my sweet sweet horse. Then ill probably change the oil again and sit in my garage asking for forgiveness while I try to come up with an excuse for my negligence. I've cut open a fram before....never again.   ANYWAY...whew, I need a drink.    

 

I compared the wix and toro filters during the change. The wix had bigger inlet ports but less of them than the toro. Gasket diameter was smaller than the toro but the wix filter was longer. I doubt any of that matters, however, I hear tell the toro filter has a 10 micron filter rating whilst the wix is around 20. That info is worth considering.  GPM or flow rate is affected by the quality of the filter media as well so if the charge pump is working harder to push oil through the filter, you will get more whining. Might also consider taking a look at your strainer as well. Those get clogged up and pumps get angry about it quick.

 

I called toro today because this is bugging me.  The guy I talked to had no clue who made the filters for them. Not only that, he couldn't even give me the specs on it...and thats after he put me on hold for 5 minutes while he tried to figure it out.  As a topper, he told me "if you have access to the internet, you could GOOGLE it and try to find out more info".  Really dude?!  He then suggested I call a local authorized toro dealer....haha, sure. 

 

Contamination is nothing to play with when dealing with variable or fixed displacement/piston pumps.  This 13 gpm pump I replaced last week blew up simply because it got some water in the system from a leaking heat exchanger.  WATER.  I may have to cut open both filters and compare for peace of mind.

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2017 by BrianK

[Sarge 3,463]

I think the phrase "blew up" is a bit short , I'd say it's more like "committed suicide"...wow . Definitely not rebuilding that one , even with a welder...

 

Filters , correct oil and such will be argued until the end of mankind and there really is a difference in quality between the players . Tough part is doing research and getting honest opinions/feedback . Even on Bob the Oil guy's site it can vary wildly - I swear some of those members will come to blows if it keeps going and his input has become far less over time . It's equally tough to find honest , hard numbers type info on the real specs needed these days - "service techs" don't know 10% of what the older generations did that built these old companies - it's all about the money now instead of the product . Wix is one of the few places that will give out it's ratings for gpm flow , micron filtering rating and such as well as all dimensions . I wish I had one of the older stock Toro/Wheel Horse filters - I swear the new stock Toro filters are lighter in construction - that's scary but there is a difference in weight between the Toro and Wix equivalent - which makes a guy wonder about quality overall .

 

I still use OEM filters on my Dodge and Toyota Land Cruiser - those two haven't seemed to change in quality . Everyone else....good luck .

 

Sarge