Xi 2 stage, disappointed, or problem ,, S.O.S.

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,497]

Ok, I made a post this morning when I went out with my son Mike on his C-175. We had about 5 inches of snow, cold , fluffy. I wanted to try my xi and cab for a bit, the cab was great, the 2 stage was fine. I didn't run it long, coated it with snowblower jet beforehand. Ok, fast forward to this evening, another 5 inches or so, still bitter cold, snow wasn't heavy, engage snowthrower and head up the driveway. Oh, coated it with WD 40. Anyway ,the snowthrower performance was way low, didn't even meet the days performance level. When I got up to the county road, the snow was heavy from the salt and brine, maybe 8 ,, 9 ,, inches or better. When pushing through it, the tractor went to stall ,, the snow would barely piddle out the chute. Even creeping slower and going for half or one third the auger width. I was shocked, stunned, dumbfounded. My 520 with single stage, my 416-8 with single stage would go through that stuff at twice the depth and shoot it 15 feet or better. I was devastated, the xi 2 stage I searched for years ,, my big 522xi running like a top. Engine flat out screaming .. WTH .. What can be Wrong? I was ready to get my 416 out of storage and drag it home . But not yet. You guys might be able to give me a clue on this, I am stumped, sad, to say the least on this set up. 

 

Anyway, ideas on what to check are appreciated. I had higher hopes than what I was shown tonight on this piddly storm. Belt tension fine, chain greased, zerks greased. I mean there are no hours on this thing. Help and ideas sought. Winter just started.

 

Thanks fellas, Glenn

Edited January 8, 2017 by JERSEYHAWG / Glenn

[daveoman1966 3,745]

Is the CLUTCH DISC slipping....sounds like it to me.  Turn the adjusting trunion so mor pressure is put on the clutch to keep it from slipping.

[JAinVA 4,619]

Glenn,

    If the blower wants to choke the engine under load it may just be snow conditions.I ran into something similar today.First blowing session this morning went fine.It snowed all day so I did the routine again.The ground was not frozen and the next layer of snow ended up much wetter than the mornings layer.It really loaded the engine and the chute clogged more than once.It would not throw the second layer for anything but places that were not previously done and deep it threw fine.Just a thought.JAinVA

[pfrederi 17,663]

That's what happens when you use that newfangled equipment.  Stick with tried and true old horses

[ACman 7,618]

Hopefully you figure this out , your doing the right thing by venting... I mean asking about your problems here ! 

[Sarge 3,463]

It's either the sun heating the snow and making it wetter than it appears , which happens quite often - or something in the drive system is not running that blower at full rpm as it should be ....

It's really tough to diagnose a slipping clutch or belt since they will only slip under a hard load - I've had someone else in the past run the tractor while I walk along side of it to watch shafts/belts/clutch disk and such ..it helps.

 

Sarge

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

Glenn, have you checked the oil level in the auger to impeller gearbox? I know it seems far fetched but it's the same gearbox on the tillers and notorious for leaking dry...the factory seals just aren't any good in my experience and I'm not familiar with the xi set up but on the classic it also has a 90° gearbox on the side belt drive that also takes oil, also check drive chain tension if has no hours I'm sure the morning run "broke in" the chain and it has stretched some,Jeff.

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,497]

.Jeff, yes, after intal set up the auger gearbox was checked, it was fine. That other gearbox isnt on this model. there is a pulley box underneath. 

 

Sarge / Jim, re wet / heavy. yes a bit I would say. But this machine should have eaten it up like my other single stage units. And it was evening fallen snow.

 

Dave, adjustment seems fine. This is a low hour unit, always babied, 268 hours as we speak.  Belt seems good as does chain and tensions on everything. ( electric clutch )

 

 

Thank you all for the replies, as I search further will let you know. 

 

Edit:  nightshot of snow plume...also, when finished. noticed snow packed in chute sticking,,yes, but  all my units do this. ??????. 

 

Glenn

Edited January 8, 2017 by JERSEYHAWG / Glenn

[doc724 925]

Glenn, I only have a single stage on my 520xi, but I can offer the following observations: My blower has the solid baffle on the lower past of the chute while yours has the "W" wire if I read the pix correctly.  The solid baffle will allow the snow to shoot further but it can also plug solid.  Based on your descriptions, the second "outing" may have had snow with a higher water content which may have blocked the outlet.  My other observation is that on two stage machines, the impeller is responsible for discharging the snow and the auger just gets it to the impeller.  Unlike a single stage where the high rpm auger does both.  

 

Places I would check are:

Is belt the correct length (there is likely no clutch slippage as it is electric and not adjustable as far as I know)?

Is the impeller moving as it should?

 

i can imagine how disappointed you are, but I think the root cause is likely simple.  I think the weather will warm up mid week which should allow for trouble shooting 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

Glenn, you said you used WD-40 as your "slickem- juice" I'm willing to bet that was your problem on the evening round, also let me ask you this "is your garage heated"? or at least warmer than outside? The WD-40 is a a water dispersment to some extent but straight up silicone spray is 100 times better for snow equipment which probably is the main ingredient in Snow-Jet, and if your rig was at 55° or more then going out in the wet snow just exasperated your snow sticking/clogging (warm tongue to frozen metal pipe "A Christmas Story") from your after picture of it stuck to the auger/ drum, yes the auger spins at half or less (1000 rpm?) speed of the impeller (3600 rpm) and I'm a firm believer in the impeller rubber paddle upgrade as seen in my above pic keeps that drum wiped clean of slush and powder, but let's see if as your set up it was a "warm" blower housing in cold wet snow didn't really cause your abnormality this time, my poor old s set in an unheated out building then go to work work at the same temperature, Jeff.

[Kurt-NEPA 755]

Sorry to hear about your problems Glenn.  That blower should be a beast. Have you checked your belt tension.  If I recall, the path of that belt is torturous, it changes direction twice.  If that belt started slipping it would cause your problem.  Just my 2 cents worth.

 

 

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,497]

1 hour ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Glenn, you said you used WD-40 as your "slickem- juice" I'm willing to bet that was your problem on the evening round, also let me ask you this "is your garage heated"? or at least warmer than outside? The WD-40 is a a water dispersment to some extent but straight up silicone spray is 100 times better for snow equipment which probably is the main ingredient in Snow-Jet, and if your rig was at 55° or more then going out in the wet snow just exasperated your snow sticking/clogging (warm tongue to frozen metal pipe "A Christmas Story") from your after picture of it stuck to the auger/ drum, yes the auger spins at half or less (1000 rpm?) speed of the impeller (3600 rpm) and I'm a firm believer in the impeller rubber paddle upgrade as seen in my above pic keeps that drum wiped clean of slush and powder, but let's see if as your set up it was a "warm" blower housing in cold wet snow didn't really cause your abnormality this time, my poor old s set in an unheated out building then go to work work at the same temperature, Jeff.

Hey Jeff, yes, my garage is heated. But I learned with my first wheel horse single stage to let that iron get cool before attacking the snow. Yep, I made that boo boo before.  Yes, I ran out of snow jet from the morning and gave it the WD 40 blast. I have been looking at the impeller paddles to, I told John today when we talked I bet there is almost a quarter inch between the paddle and drum. So we talked about me doing that upgrade. But that won't happen till the spring. Now I did buy a 2 stage from Cody a few months back, just told him to sell it for me, now I might keep it and put in on my 520-8 or get another 520. I swear, that onan had some real torque and grunt to it. I will get to the bottom of this, I searched way to long for this set up. And when we move I have 2 big driveways to take care of.

 

Glenn

1 hour ago, Kurt-NEPA said:

Sorry to hear about your problems Glenn.  That blower should be a beast. Have you checked your belt tension.  If I recall, the path of that belt is torturous, it changes direction twice.  If that belt started slipping it would cause your problem.  Just my 2 cents worth.

 

 

Kurt, the belt actually has a tension rod on it, and I checked a few times to be sure the fat part of the belt feeds through the pulleys on top. It's a crazy set up with the pulley box, but I should have got more grunt that what it did. Just sayin. The searching is far from over. Something new to conquer, the wheel horse hobby.

Did I say how the cab was great?  

 

Glenn

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,497]

3 hours ago, doc724 said:

Glenn, I only have a single stage on my 520xi, but I can offer the following observations: My blower has the solid baffle on the lower past of the chute while yours has the "W" wire if I read the pix correctly.  The solid baffle will allow the snow to shoot further but it can also plug solid.  Based on your descriptions, the second "outing" may have had snow with a higher water content which may have blocked the outlet.  My other observation is that on two stage machines, the impeller is responsible for discharging the snow and the auger just gets it to the impeller.  Unlike a single stage where the high rpm auger does both.  

 

Places I would check are:

Is belt the correct length (there is likely no clutch slippage as it is electric and not adjustable as far as I know)?

Is the impeller moving as it should?

 

i can imagine how disappointed you are, but I think the root cause is likely simple.  I think the weather will warm up mid week which should allow for trouble shooting 

Doc, I put that wire hand guard on from one of my other snowblowers, as this one came with nothing. As a side note, and I wish I took a picture, as the snow would piddle out the chute, the build up on top of the blower auger housing was amazing. I bet 8 inches on the top of the whole housing. I stopped and got out twice just to knock the snow from the chute as it was impeding the throw. I should have kept that mint xi single stage to,,it didn't eat and was paid for, grrrrrrr. BUT, 4 snowblowers was being greedy I guess. Lol

 

Glenn

[Digger 66 3,478]

2 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

"is your garage heated"?

 

That's exactly where I was headed .

Looks like a warm blower went out into the cold snow to me .

Either that or there is some undue friction being created somewhere & it's spreading over the auger & housing ,

[js5020 111]

Some snows just don't blow well depending on ,,, moisture content, temp, alignment of the planets, phase of the moon? Heck I don't know.  I have a Gravely walkbehind with a blower and most snows the plume and distance are impressive and other snows just flat out frustrating to operate.  The WH single stage which I only use for deep snows seems to work well, I haven't had issues with it (only used it twice in 3 or 4 yrs).  My guess its condition and not the fault of the equipment.

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,497]

16 minutes ago, js5020 said:

Some snows just don't blow well depending on ,,, moisture content, temp, alignment of the planets, phase of the moon? Heck I don't know.  I have a Gravely walkbehind with a blower and most snows the plume and distance are impressive and other snows just flat out frustrating to operate.  The WH single stage which I only use for deep snows seems to work well, I haven't had issues with it (only used it twice in 3 or 4 yrs).  My guess its condition and not the fault of the equipment.

Normally, I would agree with that. But, the early morning mid day try with the snowblower, and the snow was fluff. Colder than can be, no moisture. Well the snowblower was less than acceptable. I have been running the wheel horse single stage models for a few years already. My driveway is about 500 foot. I have had a few of them on a few differant machines to. I still have my 416-8 with tall chute still. Replaced cross shaft bearings last year on that to. That thing is a snow eater.

 

Just commenting is all. Thanks for your comment. This will get sorted out. There is something I didn't find yet.

 

Glenn

[Forest Road 594]

Sorry to hear you're having problems. I'm heading north this weekend. I'd be more than happy to drag the whole darn thing upstate and demo it for ya. If it fails to meet my expectations I'd let you abandon it in place. 

[can whlvr 993]

sure sunds like something isn't turning as fast as it should,i don't have a 2 stage so its hard to give technical help,and and you have stated you know how a single works,but if its cold out it should throw it 50 feet

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,497]

1 hour ago, Forest Road said:

Sorry to hear you're having problems. I'm heading north this weekend. I'd be more than happy to drag the whole darn thing upstate and demo it for ya. If it fails to meet my expectations I'd let you abandon it in place. 

Kevin, I knew you were hiding a great sense of humor, laughed for 5 minutes on the comment.

 

Glenn

1 hour ago, can whlvr said:

sure sunds like something isn't turning as fast as it should,i don't have a 2 stage so its hard to give technical help,and and you have stated you know how a single works,but if its cold out it should throw it 50 feet

I couldnt agree more. 

 

Glenn

[1995 520H+96+97 937]

Looks like the left(when seated) auger is not turning in the second picture.

Edited January 9, 2017 by 1995 520H+96+97
spell

[Sarge 3,463]

Some of the electric clutches are adjustable and if they ever get oil spilled into them they will never hold well , same with bad wiring and low voltage . It should snap shut really hard when engaged and act like it's going to jerk the crankshaft out of the engine - if not , something is wrong . Some have 3 nuts on the back side - the general adjustment distance between the clutch material packing and steel plate is .012" , make certain they are equal all the way around . Not all that familiar with the newer  2 stage units but they all operate basically the same and many use shear bolts on the main auger shafts - might want to check one isn't sheared off and allowing it to slip . I'd also give the housing a solid inspection and make sure the bottom isn't bent where the wear edge is or the rear cylinder where the throwing impellor is located . I still wonder with the snow type and lube used and the buildup of material on the parts if something isn't slipping - that buildup shouldn't be there to that extent .

 

Sarge

[Zeek 2,286]

I don't know if you will still need this, however, I have found the below product to be VERY effective. I discovered it through boating. It was so slippy, my boat went right off the trailer before it was in the water all the way (long story).

 

Anyway, it doesn't not wash off as quick as silicone spray and WD40, both of which I used to use as well.

 

Liquid Rollers

[WNYPCRepair 1,914]

I can't really help much, as I haven't had enough snow the last 2 years to really use my 2 stage. The one day I did get to use it, the belt broke. 

I do remember there is a rod that fits in a keyhole slot on the right side of the frame to keep the pulley box in place. If that isn't in place it would probably let the pulley box move and lower belt tension

 

Other than that I don't really have any ideas

 

[Xearl 131]

May sound silly but is,the auger turninng? The second stage will throw fine powder . This just happened to me  . I have not taken mine apart yet to find out  what is broken . I hope to get some help from the forum. 

Edited March 16, 2017 by Xearl
Misspellings

[JERSEYHAWG / Glenn 4,497]

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Xearl said:

May sound silly but is,the auger turninng? The second stage will throw fine powder . This just happened to me  . I have not taken mine apart yet to find out  what is broken . I hope to get some help from the forum. 

Yes, it's almost new condition, the problem was wd-40 and wet HEAVY snow. My old single stage went through it better, but higher ram's on that auger spin. Still, if you engage into the snow to fast you can get in a jamb to. Frankly, I expected to much from it.

 

Best of luck, I saw your post / thread.

 

Glenn